MP3's are the way of the past

[Spastic]

Or so the University of Rochester would have you believe. Here is a quote taken from the article I read.

We are all used to listening to MP3 music files, which offer good quality playback with relatively small file sizes. Now imagine you could have the same music, but the file size is 1,000 times smaller than the equivalent MP3 file. That is exactly what researchers at the University of Rochester are claiming they are close to achieving.

The drastic reduction in the size of the audio file is not down to a new way of sampling the music. Instead, the researchers actually re-create the audio by making a computer replay the music using a knowledge of the instruments involved. A model of how a player interacts with an instrument and the affect that has on the sound the instrument produces is used. An easier way of thinking about it is to use the example of someone playing a piano. In this instance the music file would be the sheet of notes and the computer would be the piano player taking all the right actions reproducing the sounds.

A sound comparison demonstration is available at the University of Rochester website. There you can find an MP3 and virtual performance of a 20 second clarinet being played. The researchers openly admit the virtual version isn’t perfect, but that they are getting very close to the acceptable level.

This new way of reproducing music was unveiled at the International Conference on Acoustics and Signal Processing in Las Vegas this week. Mark Bocko, co-creator of the technology said:

This is essentially a human-scale system of reproducing music … Humans can manipulate their tongue, breath, and fingers only so fast, so in theory we shouldn’t really have to measure the music many thousands of times a second like we do on a CD. As a result, I think we may have found the absolute least amount of data needed to reproduce a piece of music.

Read more at InformationWeek.com (http://www.informationweek.com/software/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=JNZ02PRDIE0XAQSNDLPCK HSCJUNN2JVN?articleID=207001130) and the University of Rochester press release (http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=3136)

So basically what happens is the computer recreates the song using what it already knows about the instruments in that song. This in effect could shrink up filesize of your average MP3 a thousand fold. While this isn't complete yet, it is an interesting topic, if it recreates music perfectly, then this will be the next big thing in digital music.

Feel free to share you thoughts/comments.

[Mirrorman]

So when it actually works and becomes huge, it wouldn't be use to me since I listen to my music with my mp3 player and I'm not buying a new one for that.

[Spastic]

Well through firmware updates and whatnot certain MP3 players may be able to play this filetype. But if this does work as anticipated I doubt anyone would use MP3 anymore, since the new file type would be A THOUSAND TIMES SMALLER. They would most likely build digital music player around this new file type.

[SODA]

This sounds like the end result will not sound like the original audio :indiff: if that is the case, I will pass. The last thing people need to worry about with the future of technology is the filesize of their mp3's.

[Mirrorman]

The problem is that I wouldn't have the money to buy a new one because everything costs insanely much here.

[Clerlic]

Isn't it the same thing as MIDI or MOD or S3M, there are numerous formats that do the same.

[Spastic]

Isn't it the same thing as MIDI or MOD or S3M, there are numerous formats that do the same.

Not at all, it is way smaller than either of those, and can handle a lot more with better end quality.

"Maybe the future of music recording lies in reproducing performers and not recording them," says Bocko.

That is the idea of what this essentially is, and if they can do so well, then it would be a huge breakthrough.

[Mirrorman]

Isn't it the same thing as MIDI or MOD or S3M, there are numerous formats that do the same.

I don't know about the others, but MIDI just does beeps and stuff like that, not actual music.

[Beefynick]

It sounds like it would take the personal aspect out of music. Sure you can get a computer to play a song perfectly, but how many musicians really play a song perfectly. They say it can recreate how the musician plays an instrument, but I just do not think it would be the same.

[SODA]

That is the idea of what this essentially is, and if they can do so well, then it would be a huge breakthrough.

I just don't see it working for heavy metal, thrash, anything with heavy modification to the actual sound the instruments produce.

It sounds like it would take the personal aspect out of music. Sure you can get a computer to play a song perfectly, but how many musicians really play a song perfectly. They say it can recreate how the musician plays an instrument, but I just do not think it would be the same.

That's stupid, mp3's are the same everytime you play them. :indiff:

[hzac]

So what this is saying.. is an mp3 music file is soon to be the size of a .id file? Thats like 4,000kbs to 40kbs. wow.

[MaxAlcolo]

That sounds amazing and all, but when I read it would "reproduce the music by reading the notes sheets and creating the music", the first think that popped into my mind was Guitar Pro. Even though it has a lot of different guitar sounds and pre-sets, it rarely ever sound the same. Now I know what we're talking about here isn't the same thing at all, I'm just afraid it would kind of do the same.

I'm not saying it's shit, I just need to try it out myself once they've mastered it and make my own opinion about the sound quality. I mean, reproducing a singer's voice or complex guitar solos from a note sheet ? Each guitarist has his own tone. The whole process seems very complex.

[Spastic]

That was just a metaphor Max, it doesn't actually translate it from sheet music.

[BurgerKueen]

Even if they perfecten it, I think it would depend on whether a company can promote and create a craze around it similar to what Apple did with iPods. Small file size is great and all, but I don't know anyone around me who has max'ed up their 40-80GB iPods, so I don't know if it's truly useful for the everyday music listener. I'd rather they could compress movies and such so I could store them on my laptop. I think this technology would be more useful for storing in computer rather than music players.

[Kai Dragon]

This will be another format war all over again(if it is successful), but MP3/MP4 will most probably reign supreme, but it's the standard for most things as of today.

[Sarge51]

I guess in theory this could be put to use for Videos, thus making Video files much smaller as well, by reducing the sound data. I think it'd be cool to even reduce the size by half and still retain quality. I myself though, don't care, due to my 80 Gig Zune still having 67Gigs free.

[Tweek]

This will be another format war all over again(if it is successful), but MP3/MP4 will most probably reign supreme, but it's the standard for most things as of today.
No, not at all.

This wouldn't be two competing corporations with their respective hardware, it would be a simple matter of smaller file + equal quality = better than mp3.

[Seriodor]

This seems like it would be good for anything that didn't have words, or you would get a whole Microsoft sam kind of thing going on.

[Quadros]

Yeah it just seems like listening to a computer generated cover of each song.

[opn4bzns]

Sounds pretty interesting, but I can't really see it working with vocals, unless every song is going to start sounding like Fitter Happier. How are they going to tackle songs that use really obscure instruments, too? The latest Nine Inch Nails album, for example, uses trash cans instead of drums in a few songs.

[junglebunny]

I still buy CDs :indiff:

[kkhan]

I think this format only covers the instruments, how does it simulate vocals?

[Bastard_inc]

well, I study music production and editing...
this sounds like a new Fancy MIDI-like crap.
I mean, think about this for a moment:
we're in an era where nothing gets really recorded, like, all of our emails and stuff we write is on the internet "somewere"(servers). but the info doesn't really exist! I mean, what about a total server breakdown? most of our culture will dissapear! inspite of that they still want to create something that would "simulate" artists so... if they're not recorded anymore, they will also dissapear.
plus, you should get a Dcent player to reproduce a george fisher growl! :P

[MaxAlcolo]

That was just a metaphor Max, it doesn't actually translate it from sheet music.

Yeah I guess I read that wrong the first time. It still reproduces the whole song from basically nothing though. I really can't wait to hear the final product.
But, let's say we need a new kind of player to play the files, seriously a 2GB one would be enough. Do you think we'd pay our 2GB the same price the 2GB iPod is today, or would it cost the same as when Apple came out with the first iPod ?

[Clerlic]

That seems like music generated with algorhitms and equations that are designed to produce instrument-like sound, and that's already been done in the demoscene since they need to pack an awesome video and music into really smal sizes (64kb even)

[Axidos]

What they're developing seems to just be an excessively complex MIDI file, and we all know how restrictive (read: shitty) they are.

[Ox]

The size of MP3 files is becoming less and less important anyway. My hard drive is 80 GB and my external is 350 GB - more than enough to store all the songs, movies, programs and everything else I need. I never have that many MP3s on my player, but others can hold ever-increasing numbers of songs. Most people don't even fill their 40, 80 or 160 GB MP3 players, so how likely is it they're going to need to be able to fit 1000x more songs on it?

This might have been important when 256MB MP3 players were all you could get at a reasonable price, but with the relatively large capacity modern MP3 players have, I think people would stick with what they have... particularly when the the description of the alternative sounds like you'd be listening to a computer-generated cover of the song you want to hear.

[Tener]

How about they try and make something with superb quality and the size of mp3...

[Kwanza]

Sounds like this would be technology they would use in future music games like Guitar Hero, allowing you to import your own music and map out notes.

But, for actually replacing daily MP3 usages? I doubt it.

[PyroOwned]

This better be free to use, although it would be a great money-making scheme.

[Clank22]

Wouldn't this be a problem for people who download illegal music? Would be alot harder to tell if its a virus or not :P not that i download music illegally

[Iiro]

Sounds fucking retarded.

[Indoctrine]

I don't think that will work.

a) People are always experimenting with instruments, so it would not be comprehensive.
b) It'd require more CPU usage than an MP3, which is stupid.
c) What about voice? Everyone has a different voice, so that wouldn't work.

It would not make a perfect replica of the music, which would be shit. I think they're trying to beat copyright infringements. It'd be very easy to make the music protected if they had songs that referred to digital "music sheets".

[Kashew]

I have a hard time believing my computer could imitate Tom Morello in "Bulls on Parade", "Microphone Fiend", or "Renegades of Funk". Imitating Jimi? Yes. I can see that. However, Morello's style is far too technical and unique.

[barnesy111]

Yes, the filesize of the song would be smaller, but it would need to store hundreds of thousands of sounds to recreate the instruments exactly; making the whole ordeal pointless.