Gay Adoption debate theard.

[hmn47]

This is a Gay Adoption debate thread. I'm against it.

USER WAS PUT IN TIMEOUT FOR THIS POST. (http://forums.explosm.net/eventlog.php)
Reason: You make these horrible threads on purpose, don't you?

[Niki]

This thread should never have happened and I hate you for everything you have ever posted

[Pieman]

I agree, gays shouldn't be able to adopt. That right is reserved for people.

[woodentoast]

Assuming this thread won't get dumped; I'd say I'm for it, but kids are bastards, and if the really giant bastards find out a classmate has 2 dads/mums then they'd be bullied to no end.

[Exodus]

I don't understand why lesbians make a big deal out of it. They can just go to a bar and get someone to nail them and get knocked up that way.

Gay guys can just find a friend willing to be a surrogate mother.

It shouldn't really be that hard to find a way around the law.

[SomethingWitty]

I don't see anything wrong with it as long as the prospective parents are in a long term, stable and committed relationship and are financially and emotionally able to provide the child with the upbringing it deserves.
Just because a person doesn't fit the criteria for sexual norms in certain societies doesn't mean that they would make any worse parents than straight people. I know plenty of straight couples that I know would make absolutely horrible parents but nobody's against them littering the world with their retarded offspring.

[Pancho_Villa]

This is a Gay Adoption debate thread. I'm against it.

Your reasoning is flawless. I don't think anyone could manage to poke a hole in that argument. It definitely couldn't be written off as some sort of homophobia. Given it could as easily be perfectly reasoned, but how will we know?

I am against it because they will only gay up the kid and create an unending cycle of gay, until everyone on the planet is gay till no one wants to procreate and just has gay sex instead.

Assuming this thread won't get dumped; I'd say I'm for it, but kids are bastards, and if the really giant bastards find out a classmate has 2 dads/mums then they'd be bullied to no end.

Kids get picked on for an infinite list of things, if the parents are any good the kid has just as good of a chance as he/she would with any other parents.

[abbey]

I am against adoption altogether. It's a waste of valuable orphans that could be used to better our industrial sector.

[hmn47]

I don't see anything wrong with it as long as the prospective parents are in a long term, stable and committed relationship and are financially and emotionally able to provide the child with the upbringing it deserves.
Just because a person doesn't fit the criteria for sexual norms in certain societies doesn't mean that they would make any worse parents than straight people. I know plenty of straight couples that I know would make absolutely horrible parents but nobody's against them littering the world with their retarded offspring.

Hey, People with mental retardations are people also. ( But only if they arn't gay).

[Pancho_Villa]

Hey, People with mental retardations are people also. ( But only if they arn't gay).

Hey, Whites/Blacks/Asians/Non-retards/The Swiss are people also. ( But only if they arn't gay).

[El Zilcho]

This thread is such a good idea :gj:

[Niki]

in this thread, hmn47 tries to block out his homosexual fantasies with blatant homophobia

[hmn47]

Hey, Whites/Blacks/Asians/Non-retards/The Swiss are people also. ( But only if they arn't gay).

It was a joke. Just befuase I don't belive that Gays should be able to Marry/Adopt, doesn't mean I have anything against them.

[El Zilcho]

It was a joke. Just befuase I don't belive that Gays should be able to Marry/Adopt, doesn't mean I have anything against them.

No, you just wish them not to have the same rights as you.

[Hats of!]

Yes. Gay people should be able to adopt. I see no reason to why not. Children do not grow up any differently by having gay parents, and it's relatively stupid to claim so. The real reason why people are so afraid of gay people having rights isn't any scientific stuff, it's strictly religious and cultural.

Really, the anti-gay agenda some people pushes sickens me just as much as the anti-black and anti-jew agendas in the past years, or the seemingly growing anti-atheist agenda (atheists are the minority which is least trusted in USA).

I guess what really makes me sick about this is that being homosexual, bisexual or any other alternative sexual trait isn't at all a choice. It's circumstances by birth. For me, harassing a gay man is just as bad as harassing a cripple (obviously, gay people aren't cripples, the point is that they can't control stuff they were born with).

I'm not saying that you have to like gay people though. You have the right to hate them just as much as you want. You can't, however, take away their rights.

[abbey]

Yeah it's like harassing Idioteque.

[Pancho_Villa]

It was a joke. Just befuase I don't belive that Whites/Blacks/Asians/Non-retards/The Swiss should be able to Marry/Adopt, doesn't mean I have anything against them.

[Hats of!]

Yeah it's like harassing Idioteque.

Or Stephen Hawkins.

[hmn47]

It was a joke. Just befuase I don't belive that Whites/Blacks/Asians/Non-retards/The Swiss should be able to Marry/Adopt, doesn't mean I have anything against them.

My great grandfather was killed by Nazi's during the holocuast. Go on....

[Pancho_Villa]

In that case you should understand what this kind of forbidding of common rights means more than anyone else.

That and I don't know what that has to do with anything I typed above.

[DoctorButt]

Hmn47 is such a fucking dumbass. You have nothing against gays.but they shouldn't be able to do something a heterosexual can do? You're whats wrong with the world.

[Valkyrie]

Gays should be able to adopt and thats that.

[Mustache]

What's a theard?

Yes. Explanation, explanation, explanation.

I'll agree with that. I mean everyone obviously has the right to adopt a child. So... Is there even an argument here?

[DoctorButt]

No,just everyone bash hmn47 for being a fucktard.

[Antisaint]

Children with two male parents will develop intimacy problems. The role of a male parent is to be a protector, while a female parent is the one that a child runs to if they get hurt, to be emotional with. Male parents don't form the same bonds with their children, especially if they are not their biological parents. Mothers keep children warm and nurtured, and a child will automatically recognize which gender parent kept them alive for 9 months before they came out.

It's not a question of morality, it's a question of fitness for the job.

[Matterialize]

As a gay male, this thread insults and astonishes me.

[hmn47]

Marriage is bewteen a man and a women. I have no problem with Gays, I just don't think they should be able to be married. It's in the Old Testament, and that's my
view. Adoption should only be done by married couples.

[El Zilcho]

Delete this.

[Cyan]

Once again hmn47 is trying to be edgy.. Or gay. Either of those two.

[hmn47]

No, Its called " Life partnerships". I have no problem with those.

[Cyan]

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[woodentoast]

If you're living by the rules of the Old Testament then shouldn't you be off stoning disobediant children to death?

[Pancho_Villa]

So is this about gay marriage or gay adoption? The fact that there are stay at home dads says that gender roles are far from rules that are etched in stone.

[Niki]

I'm assuming you kill everybody in a city that has any atheists then right? Since you're living according to the old testament and all.

And rape is ok as long as the rapist marries the woman? You must think slavery and murder are pretty cool too.

[hmn47]

[QUOTE=woodentoast;1108859]If you're living by the rules of the Old Testament then shouldn't you be off stoning disobediant children to death?[QUOT. No, weed does that for me.

[Niki]

Oh, and do you kill women who aren't virgins on their wedding night, followers of other religions, and people who work on sunday too? You can't pick and choose if you're following the old testament.

[hmn47]

I'm assuming you kill everybody in a city that has any atheists then right? Since you're living according to the old testament and all.

And rape is ok as long as the rapist marries the woman? You must think slavery and murder are pretty cool too.

Have you read it? No? I have, don't talk about it untill you have read it start to finish. Don't harp on a few bad parts.

[Niki]

Yes, I have. I was raised catholic and went to a catholic elementary school and had to go to church twice a week. I can quote the goddamn parts of the bible where it says all this if you'd REALLY like me to.

[woodentoast]

Children with two male parents will develop intimacy problems. The role of a male parent is to be a protector, while a female parent is the one that a child runs to if they get hurt, to be emotional with. Male parents don't form the same bonds with their children, especially if they are not their biological parents. Mothers keep children warm and nurtured, and a child will automatically recognize which gender parent kept them alive for 9 months before they came out.

It's not a question of morality, it's a question of fitness for the job.

What about single parent families? I've never known my dad and yet i'm no different from any of my friends with both parents, and I have a friend who's mum died when he was around aged 2, he hasn't got any intimacy problems.
Your argument has just been pulled from stereotypes.

[Pancho_Villa]

It was a joke. Just befuase I don't belive that Gays should be able to Marry/Adopt, doesn't mean I have anything against them.
1. Denial.
My great grandfather was killed by Nazi's during the holocuast. Go on....
2. Anger.
I do. I give pott to little kids. That's what you meant right?
3. Bargaining

Two more.

[Crabstick]

This theard should never have happened and I hate you for everything you have ever posted

Fixed.

I say we let the orphans decide their own parents.

[woodentoast]

Have you read it? No? I have, don't talk about untill you have read it start of finish.

It wouldn't matter if she had or hadn't, everything she mentioned is in there so her argument still stands while you're making yourself look like an even bigger fucktard.

[Remote]

I am against it. For alot of reasons, but my main one can only be explained in three words: "I am a Christain."

[LaPhBu]

e; nevermind

[El Zilcho]

It wouldn't matter if she had or hadn't, everything she mentioned is in there so her argument still stands while you're making yourself look like an even bigger fucktard.

That's the problem with these hate mongers nowadays. They never take the time think these things through.

[Niki]

Also, just because I hate you hmn

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

and this little gem

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

[Niki]

I am against it. For alot of reasons, but my main one can only be explained in three words: "(1)I (2)am (3)a (4)Christain."

I hope that was on purpose.

[Leberkaese]

Gays would raise there kids also in a "gay way", so there is a much higher chance that the kids become gay too, which would lead to an increase of homosexuals on our planet.

No, they shouldn't be allowed to adopt kids.

[Astronaut]

<-- For it. Sure let'm adopt. Most people are unfit to raise children what makes gays any different?

And that's actually very wrong Leber. The kid will probably grow up metro, have a high respect for women, and probably be successful. Homosexuality is synonomous with self esteem.

And whats to stop a drinking dad from raising a drinking kid? Or whore mother raising whore daughter? In any case Adoption Agencies are pretty picky now adays, if you're fit you're fit if you're not you're not. They should choose not people who have no say.

[El Zilcho]

Also, God loves everyone but gays don't deserve the same rights as everyone else.

Niki you forgot one.

Also:
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[hmn47]

I hope that was on purpose.
It was, unlike you.

[Niki]

Gays would raise there kids also in a "gay way", so there is a much higher chance that the kids become gay too, which leads to an increase of homosexuals on our planet.

No, they shouldn't be allowed to adopt kids.

No. Homosexuality is not a choice and it is not nurture as much as nature. You're born gay, you don't turn gay. You fucking idiot. (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hiiYMI3HVWYzv6bcQKGakNWFbMRA)

Also are you just pissed because I just showed you that your reasoning is wrong and completely idiotic, hmn?

[Pancho_Villa]

It was, unlike you.


And about half the world's population.

[LaPhBu]

Niki you forgot one.

No, God loves gays also. God will always be there. Its not God not loving the gays, its the gays turning AWAY from God, not accepting his love. So its God loves everyone, but the gays don't love God.

I go to a Catholic school :nerd:

Oh yeah, gays should be able to adopt.

[hmn47]

Huh? My reasoning was limited to God says so.

[LaPhBu]

It was, unlike you.

HEY I AM GOING TO IGNORE THE MOST VALID POST IN THIS ARGUMENT AND CALL NIKI AN ACCIDENT!!! HURR HURR THIS WILL SURELY WIN THE ARGUMENT. :indiff:

Huh? My reasoning was limited to God says so.

And then she quoted parts of the bible that you should do, but don't. BUT APPARENTLY YOU CANT UNDERSTAND SIMPLE ENGLISH.

[Niki]

No, you said because it said in the old testament. By your logic you have to do all those horrible things to people because the old testament said to. Basically, the old testament tells you to be a horrible person with no regard for human life. Not the kind of thing I'd want to base my views on.

[Astronaut]

LaP is easing us into the big religion thread next. Nice.

[woodentoast]

Gays would raise there kids also in a "gay way", so there is a much higher chance that the kids become gay too, which would lead to an increase of homosexuals on our planet.

No, they shouldn't be allowed to adopt kids.

Tell me this guys a troll, please.
I'll edit in the link that proves how stupid you are incase you're actually serious.

e; Nevermind, Niki got it.

[hmn47]

No, you said because it said in the old testament. By your logic you have to do all those horrible things to people because the old testament said to. Basically, the old testament tells you to be a horrible person with no regard for human life. Not the kind of thing I'd want to base my views on.

No, only the reasonable ones.

[El Zilcho]

So you just pick and choose which rules to follow?

The whole point of bringing up the old testament is to show that a cast number of the teachings in it are "outdated" and have no place in today's society. Some of which including beating your wife and murdering non-believers. Infringing on the rights of gays in todays society is just another "teaching" that has no justifiable place in today's modern world.

[DoctorButt]

Hmn,honestly are you trolling us,or are you just that fucking stupid?

[Astronaut]

Niki and I posted the same thing except she had science and a vendetta.

[Niki]

Oh okay. So you think it's REASONABLE to deny certain people rights based on something out of their control just because it says so in some book full of enough stories with no physical evidence to be technically fiction?

I don't care if he's trolling, I haven't been in a fun argument in a while. :hmm:

Plus he's been posting inane bullshit like this for months.

[Pancho_Villa]

Gays would raise there kids also in a "gay way", so there is a much higher chance that the kids become gay too, which would lead to an increase of homosexuals on our planet.

No, they shouldn't be allowed to adopt kids.

"I am against it because they will only gay up the kid and create an unending cycle of gay, until everyone on the planet is gay, till no one wants to procreate and just has gay sex instead."

[woodentoast]

And what makes it reasonable, besides your slightly homophobic views?

[hmn47]

If gayness is genetic, why do people come out when they are older?

[Niki]

Because they're afraid ignorant idiots like yourself won't accept them.

[DoctorButt]

Because they're young and don't understand. How would a oh say a 9 year old know that he is gay? He's fucking 9.

[Pancho_Villa]

If gayness is genetic, why do people come out when they are older?

Because puberty doesn't happen when you are two, they don't want to get the hell beat out of them by rednecks/fundamentalists, they don't want their parents to hate them, and probably stuff like that.

You are either retarded or a troll.

[El Zilcho]

Does anyone wanna watch gay porn with me?

[hmn47]

Oh okay. So you think it's REASONABLE to deny certain people rights based on something out of their control just because it says so in some book full of enough stories with no physical evidence to be technically fiction?

I don't care if he's trolling, I haven't been in a fun argument in a while. :hmm:

Plus he's been posting inane bullshit like this for months.

Nope, Years. Also, people pass ideals and traits to thier children,
stands to reason that gay-adopts would have a slightley higher chance of bieng gay. If a dad likes baseball, chances are his son will to, after years of playing baseball with dad. Also, The reason people are gay is highley debated and unconfirmed either way at this point.

[DoctorButt]

I do. WITH LOTS OF MEN DOING IT IN THE BUM
I AM THE GOD OF HELLFIRE AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[woodentoast]

If gayness is genetic, why do people come out when they are older?

Because it's only when they're older that they're getting into relationships? As Kayla said, a 9 year old who's going to turn out to be gay won't know because he won't have had a relationship until then, and most straight 9 year olds would still count the opposite sex as "icky". If you're going to ignore science when it's thrown in your face we've still got logic, so shut the fuck up.

[El Zilcho]

Nope, Years. Also, people pass ideals and traits to thier children,
stands to reason that gay-adopts would have a slightley higher chance of bieng gay. If a dad likes baseball, chances are his son will to, after years of playing baseball with dad. Also, The reason people are gay is highley debated and unconfirmed either way at this point.

That's as stupid as saying "if you're dad has a foot fetish, so will you."

You can't help what you're attracted to. By your logic, explain how straight parents have gay kids, which is the vast majority?

[hmn47]

Because puberty doesn't happen when you are two, they don't want to get the hell beat out of them by rednecks/fundamentalists, they don't want their parents to hate them, and probably stuff like that.

You are either retarded or a troll.

I mean at like age 40 and stuff. Also, people have sexual urges before pueburty.

[Niki]

Nope, Years. Also, people pass ideals and traits to thier children,
stands to reason that gay-adopts would have a slightley higher chance of bieng gay. If a dad likes baseball, chances are his son will to, after years of playing baseball with dad. Also, The reason people are gay is highley debated and unconfirmed either way at this point.

Oh yeah, because gay parents are definitely going to just have tons of gay sex all over the house in front of the children and won't explain the situation to them when they're old and mature enough to understand. Gayness is genetic and not really affected by environmental factors, deal with it you ignorant piece of shit.

I'm assuming you think hanging around tall people makes you tall, too? Because I mean you're getting exposed to it so it OBVIOUSLY happens to you too.

[El Zilcho]

The problem with this thread, and why it was total shit to begin with, is that you've can't have a debate on things like this because no one will change their opinion. You go from exchanging ideas to arguing beliefs and you can't do that.

So while we do have logic on our side, hmn47 just won't get it and will continue to spew ignorance. Close the fucking thread.

[Pancho_Villa]

Nope, Years. Also, people pass ideals and traits to thier children,
stands to reason that gay-adopts would have a slightley higher chance of bieng gay. If a dad likes baseball, chances are his son will to, after years of playing baseball with dad. Also, The reason people are gay is highley debated and unconfirmed either way at this point.

Chances are equally as high that he won't like baseball and hate his dad for making him play it. It is the manner in which the parents approach an activity that matters.

The kid could very well turn out gay, but the same goes for the fact that he won't. The difference lies in the fact that the gay parents are less likely to force the kid to keep it under wraps versus your straight, religious parents. So you could very well have a higher percentage of kids come out in that situation, but still have the same percentage of kids come out of homes being gay later in life. You need to account for that when you use percentages.

You can't really use blanket statements with people, there are far too many variables for most to really work.


So while we do have logic on our side, hmn47 just won't get it and will continue to spew ignorance. Close the fucking thread.


This.

[Leberkaese]

No. Homosexuality is not a choice and it is not nurture as much as nature. You're born gay, you don't turn gay. You fucking idiot. (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hiiYMI3HVWYzv6bcQKGakNWFbMRA)


I just wanted to see your reactions on my post.
I don't think that being gay is 100% determined when getting born.
Show me a study which says I am wrong with that please.
On the "You fucking idiot"-page I didn't find anything that proves I am wrong.

[Niki]

Yeah I think the one I linked to did a pretty good job of it.

[hmn47]

Oh yeah, because gay parents are definitely going to just have tons of gay sex all over the house in front of the children and won't explain the situation to them when they're old and mature enough to understand. Gayness is genetic and not really affected by environmental factors, deal with it you ignorant piece of shit.

I'm assuming you think hanging around tall people makes you tall, too? Because I mean you're getting exposed to it so it OBVIOUSLY happens to you too.

Sexual Orientation is not genetic. Height( what normall people call "Tallness" ) is, as is eye color.

[Remote]

I hope that was on purpose.
Just trying to be edgy.

[El Zilcho]

And round and round we go..

[Android]

Why would anyone adopt a gay?

[Niki]

Sexual Orientation is not genetic. Height( what normall people call "Tallness" ) is, as is eye color.

Did you not read the study I posted at all? Homosexuality is genetic, all the evidence points to it, they just haven't isolated the gene yet but they're making progress.
Explain homosexual males having the same brain structures as heterosexual females and lesbians having the same brain structure as straight men if it's not genetic.

[hmn47]

Oh yeah, because gay parents are definitely going to just have tons of gay sex all over the house in front of the children and won't explain the situation to them when they're old and mature enough to understand. Gayness is genetic and not really affected by environmental factors, deal with it you ignorant piece of shit.

I'm assuming you think hanging around tall people makes you tall, too? Because I mean you're getting exposed to it so it OBVIOUSLY happens to you too.

You're parents did, and see how that ended up?

[Hypocrite]

If someone I knew had two fathers and no mother I would make fun of them to no end. If the person had two mothers and no father, I would be forced to see them first to check whether or not it would be ethical or moral for me to make fun of them.


EDIT wait what?
Did you not read the study I posted at all? Homosexuality is genetic, all the evidence points to it, they just haven't isolated the gene yet but they're making progress.
Explain homosexual males having the same brain structures as heterosexual females and lesbians having the same brain structure as straight men if it's not genetic.

If it were genetic, then it shouldn't logically be passed on?

[Remote]

Huh? My reasoning was limited to God says so.
Read the Old Testament. If you disobey him your up to your ass in pestilence.

[El Zilcho]

I love how when he has no answer, he just makes a personal attack.

[Niki]

You're parents did, and see how that ended up?

Yes, my female mother and male father just had so much GAY SEX together in front of me as a child.

If it were genetic, then it shouldn't logically be passed on?

If both parents are carriers of the gene there's a chance it will. But we're talking about adopting.

[Riddlebox]

Nope, Years. Also, people pass ideals and traits to thier children,
stands to reason that gay-adopts would have a slightley higher chance of bieng gay. If a dad likes baseball, chances are his son will to, after years of playing baseball with dad. Also, The reason people are gay is highley debated and unconfirmed either way at this point.

But the majority of homosexuals don't have gay parents, they have straight ones.

Edit: Didn't refresh the page :indiff:

[hmn47]

They did, just not not with each other. (@ Niki)

[Niki]

How about instead of making personal attacks you either try to argue with more fucked up logic about things you don't understand or just admit you've been defeated? You're only making yourself look stupid.

[Pancho_Villa]

Sexual Orientation is not genetic. Height( what normall people call "Tallness" ) is, as is eye color.

Yao Ming. Genetic mutations. Cross-overs. Take one biology course before you talk about genetics. That and outliers.

[Hypocrite]

But the majority of homosexuals don't have gay parents, they have straight ones.

Edit: Didn't refresh the page :indiff:

Law of averages I assume; there are WAY more straight couples than gay couples, so there are probably going to be more gay kids from straight parents than gay parents.

[hmn47]

If someone I knew had two fathers and no mother I would make fun of them to no end. If the person had two mothers and no father, I would be forced to see them first to check whether or not it would be ethical or moral for me to make fun of them.


EDIT wait what?


If it were genetic, then it shouldn't logically be passed on?

Niki is way to cool for logic.

[Niki]

Oh, so now you're not even reading before you post? I already explained that with science, which is logical, unlike "GOD SAYS NO
!!!!!!!"
Seriously, have you even taken grade 10 biology? Do you know anything about dominant and recessive genes?

[Remote]

Did you not read the study I posted at all? Homosexuality is genetic, all the evidence points to it, they just haven't isolated the gene yet but they're making progress.
Explain homosexual males having the same brain structures as heterosexual females and lesbians having the same brain structure as straight men if it's not genetic.
Homosexuality may be genetic, but it's not important in an adoption thread. The argument is that a child being raised around gays will greatly increase the chances that the child will be gay. Look at straight couples with children. Most of the time the children end up just like their parent(s); personality, and genetically in the end. Look at the average person. They have a kid, and the kid most of the time inherits the parents religion. If the child was adopted by say a Jewish family the child will most likely end up Jewish.

[El Zilcho]

You're missing the point about homosexuality being genetic. As in it can't be taught.

[hmn47]

Yes, but with 600M test subjects, that's irrelvant. That's grade a 6 AP or 9th grade course, not a tenth grade course.

[Niki]

No, if homosexuality is genetic, being raised by gay parents won't make you gay.
That's basically saying straight parents ONLY have straight children, religious parents ONLY raise religious children, or nice parents ONLY raise kids that aren't assholes. Kids don't always turn out like their parents and gay parents WILL NOT make gay children.

[The_Solipsist]

When it comes to brain structure and chemistry, there's no direct inheritance, but the predisposition for such may exist and may come to fruition.

Of course, you have a lot to consider when it comes down to it, as, although there are seemingly genetic precursors, you also have a huge psychological factor to take into effect. Whether or not either or even both play a factor and how they play a factor is still up to debate, albeit they've come very close to finding actual evidence of a 'gay' gene. Nature versus Nurture.

[Niki]

Yes, but with 600M test subjects, that's irrelvant. That's grade a 6 AP or 9th grade course, not a tenth grade course.

I guess you also find english classes irrelevant. It's 10th grade here.

[hmn47]

Homosexuality may be genetic, but it's not important in an adoption thread. The argument is that a child being raised around gays will greatly increase the chances that the child will be gay. Look at straight couples with children. Most of the time the children end up just like their parent(s); personality, and genetically in the end. Look at the average person. They have a kid, and the kid most of the time inherits the parents religion. If the child was adopted by say a Jewish family the child will most likely end up Jewish.

Prepare to be flamed, you disgusting homophobe.

[Pancho_Villa]

Yes, but with 600M test subjects, that's irrelvant. That's grade a 6 AP or 9th grade course, not a tenth grade course.

At lot of high schools you can choose when to take a given course (with the exception of linear courses), the number is fairly arbitrary.

[Jabo]

I'm not really in touch with this topic, so I would need some stadistics, but I dont think that being raised by gay parents will eventually make the child gay. All the parents have to do is to send him to a mixed school, some years later the guy will be in bed with three of his lady friends.

[The_Solipsist]

Allow gays to adopt. They are just as messed up as straight couples, and no more/less so.

This whole idea is ridiculous to even bother debating over. Science, actual objective science, gives no evidence for gay children being created by gay couples more often than straight, and even so, you make it seem like its a bad thing, which creates a whole new argument in and of itself.

And if anyone has data or anything trying to prove that gay couples create gay children, please remember, a CORRELATION does NOT mean CAUSE AND EFFECT.

[Remote]

No, if homosexuality is genetic, being raised by gay parents won't make you gay.
That's basically saying straight parents ONLY have straight children, religious parents ONLY raise religious children, or nice parents ONLY raise kids that aren't assholes. Kids don't always turn out like their parents and gay parents WILL NOT make gay children.
I'm not saying that ALL children turn out like their parents. Although you do make some very valid points. I'm just saying almost everything can be taught pending environment. I'm not saying I'm right, and you aren't. I'm just proposing a different side.

[The_Solipsist]

I'm not saying that ALL children turn out like their parents. Although you do make some very valid points. I'm just saying almost everything can be taught pending environment. I'm not saying I'm right, and you aren't. I'm just proposing a different side.

Pseudo-pragmatism is ludicrous.

If you were intelligent, you'd realize that there's no need to make a different side.

[Niki]

I am right. You can't teach something that's genetic. You can't teach someone to be six feet tall. You can't teach someone to have blue eyes. You can't teach someone to have a different brain structure or different hormones or different genetics.

[El Zilcho]

This is by far the most elaborate trolling I've ever seen.

[The_Solipsist]

I am right. You can't teach something that's genetic. You can't teach someone to be six feet tall. You can't teach someone to have blue eyes. You can't teach someone to have a different brain structure or different hormones or different genetics.

No, you can't.

But you can 'teach' someone to be homosexual. Genetics are not the only thing here, and even so, like I said, it is not directly inheritable.

[Kass]

I think child-rearing of any kind should be illegal. Let the children out in the wild, to fend for themselves. It's the only natural way.

[Remote]

I am right. You can't teach something that's genetic. You can't teach someone to be six feet tall. You can't teach someone to have blue eyes. You can't teach someone to have a different brain structure or different hormones or different genetics.
If it is genetic. It's not a sure thing.

[Demoir]

edit: only just occured to me about a page has passed since the tool made a stupid analogy. Disregard this.

[The_Solipsist]

If it is genetic. It's not a sure thing.

Do you think repeating what others have said will make you seem any smarter, or are you just that fucking stupid?

[Niki]

No, you can't.

But you can 'teach' someone to be homosexual. Genetics are not the only thing here, and even so, like I said, it is not directly inheritable.

You don't turn gay just by spending time with gay people and that's just how it works. I'm sure the gay parents would make sure their child wasn't raised any differently than they would be with straight parents, and they obviously won't act like the gay stereotypes you obviously all have in your heads.

[Pancho_Villa]

I'm not saying that ALL children turn out like their parents. Although you do make some very valid points. I'm just saying almost everything can be taught pending environment. I'm not saying I'm right, and you aren't. I'm just proposing a different side.


"I think it's almost beyond a doubt that genes have some influence," said Ray Blanchard, a researcher at the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health in Toronto, who studies the effect of birth order in predicting whether a male will be born homosexual. "My personal view is that there is probably more than one biological mechanism contributing toward homosexuality. I think it's also safe to say that there is at least one non-genetic influence."

Blanchard found that with each older brother in a family, the odds increase by about a third that a boy born later will be gay. This effect is not thought to be caused by genetics, but rather by antibodies produced by the mother's immune system during pregnancy."
Source. (http://www.livescience.com/health/080617-hereditary-homosexuality.html)

Perhaps there is more to it than simply genetic disposition. The body is quite complex, as said above there could be a plethora reasons. Not that anyone will really read this.

[Remote]

Do you think repeating what others have said will make you seem any smarter, or are you just that fucking stupid?
You don't haft to be a dick about it. How about you make an intelligent answer instead of coming back to troll.

[The_Solipsist]

You don't turn gay just by spending time with gay people and that's just how it works. I'm sure the gay parents would make sure their child wasn't raised any differently than they would be with straight parents, and they obviously won't act like the gay stereotypes you obviously all have in your heads.

That wasn't your statement.

I know very well that there's no cause and effect there, but genetics aren't the ONLY thing that plays, and you seem to forget that. Ofcourse, I agree, let gays adopt, but to say that it's all genetics is just as stupid as saying it's a learned behavior.

It's both. Maybe you understand that, but you show it just as much as those you're arguing with.

You don't haft to be a dick about it. How about you make an intelligent answer instead of coming back to troll.

Why should I respond with an intelligent answer, in which I have been, when you are a fucking idiot? Since when has that been the rule?

[Niki]

It's sure as hell MORE genetics than a learned behavior, and the point I've been trying to get across since page 1 is that gay children won't turn gay from being around gay parents. I know my sexuality isn't inherited from my parents, nor is it learned from them and it sure as hell wasn't a choice.

[The_Solipsist]

It's sure as hell MORE genetics than a learned behavior, and the point I've been trying to get across since page 1 is that gay children won't turn gay from being around gay parents. I know my sexuality isn't inherited from my parents, nor is it learned from them and it sure as hell wasn't a choice.

This is in no way the case. You can't base a fact off of a case study.

It can be learned, not from them being gay, but from specific things that may have either caused a dislike for the opposite sex, or a liking for the same sex. Classical conditioning and all that jazz, it all CAN have an effect on it. Of course, there is a strong physiological link, but that's not necessarily all of the cases. You have to factor in the psychosocial as well.

[BreakTheWalls]

Wow. 4 pages long already.

There’s loads of controversy over gay adoption. Where’s the controversy? I’d have loved to have a gay dad. Do you remember all that stuff at school like “Oh, my dad will batter your dad” “No, my dad will batter your dad”. Hey! Listen! My dad will shag your dad! And your dad will enjoy it.

I'm all for gay adoption, gay men would make brilliant dads. They know where all the best parks are. They also know how to put Talcum Powder on a sore bottom.

Also, Niki > Hmn

[Sherbetcat]

No. Homosexuality is not a choice and it is not nurture as much as nature. You're born gay, you don't turn gay. You fucking idiot. (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hiiYMI3HVWYzv6bcQKGakNWFbMRA)



Although I don't agree with hmn47, I have to point out that your argument about being born gay doesn't stand.

Personally, I believe that certain genetic traits can make you more likely to be homosexual, but at the same time this doesn't mean that they certainly do. Their enviroment, childhood and other experiences take effect.
Basically, I am nature and nurture.

For a start, the webpage you linked isn't exactly trustworthy. It is from Google news, and also notice the grammar useage:
"two separate parameters, both unlikely to be directly affected by learned patterns and behavior" in 90 men and women --

Basically, there is a possibility that the parameters could have been directly affected, as well as indirectly, in a study of only 90 men and women, all from one location.

Also;

"The brains of homosexual men resemble those of heterosexual women, while lesbians' brains show similarities with those of straight men..."

Oh, so now, apparently they only resemble. Personally, I think my neighbor resembles my friend's dog, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean anything either. Anyway, back to the point. Two brains resemble each other. Notice that whilst these brains show similarities, it doesn't actually say that the male and female brains are actually different at all.

To sum this quote up, a homosexual man's brain might be slightly similar to heterosexual woman, and it is possible that these similarities were caused by learned patterns in behaviour.

Furthering my argument; what about identical twins? I personally know two identical twins, one being gay and one being heterosexual. If being gay is down to genetics, then how has this happened exactly? I personally think it is nothing to do with genetics, but hormones and enviroments.

http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead2.html

Conclusion:
Don't believe everything you find though Google, and just because a supposed Scientist or case study states something doesn't mean it has actually been proven. These people need funds to continue research, y'know, and they're not going to get it by unless they words their findings very carefully.

[El Zilcho]

Furthering my argument; what about identical twins? I personally know two identical twins, one being gay and one being heterosexual. If being gay is down to genetics, then how has this happened exactly? I personally think it is nothing to do with genetics, but hormones and enviroments.

Identical twin don't have the exact same genes. If that were true, they would have the same fingerprint.

[Niki]

This is in no way the case. You can't base a fact off of a case study.

It can be learned, not from them being gay, but from specific things that may have either caused a dislike for the opposite sex, or a liking for the same sex. Classical conditioning and all that jazz, it all CAN have an effect on it. Of course, there is a strong physiological link, but that's not necessarily all of the cases. You have to factor in the psychosocial as well.

Well of course if you've suffered some trauma like being raped you'll have some form of distaste for the opposite sex. But having gay parents most likely won't traumatize you.

Also I'll read that wall of text when my dad is done with the computer in like 5 minutes.

[LaPhBu]

Unless they rape you.JUST KIDDING

[El Zilcho]

Unless they rape you.JUST KIDDING

Oh my god, your argument is bulletproof

[LaPhBu]

It says just kidding in case you missed it.

[El Zilcho]

No I got it.

[The_Solipsist]

Well of course if you've suffered some trauma like being raped you'll have some form of distaste for the opposite sex. But having gay parents most likely won't traumatize you.

Well, no shit, I'm not making any argument for that. It does not take trauma to produce behavior.

I've stated clearly, that there is no cause and effect relationship or even a small correlation between parents and children and their respective sexual preferences.

Now you're just getting all hippie on me.

[LaPhBu]

Did I miss something, or are you 2 arguing the same point?

[El Zilcho]

This "debate" is going around in circles. This theard is about whether or not gay parents are fit to adopt. No one has and evidence that they aren't.

[El Zilcho]

Did I miss something, or are you 2 arguing the same point?

Yes they are.

[The_Solipsist]

Yes they are.

No, she's put too much emphasis on the biological factors. That's what we're arguing about.

[El Zilcho]

But it's coming around to the same point that gay parents do not make their kids gay.

[The_Solipsist]

But it's coming around to the same point that gay parents are not responsible for their adopted kid for being gay.

Yes, of course, but that's still not what we, Niki and I, are arguing about.

[Koots Klone]

I used to be really antigay, then I fucking grew up. There is nothing wrong with people being gay, and they should be allowed to adopt. I mean, what are the adverse effects people are so concerned about-more people who are gay, or oh my God people who are accepting of others beliefs and actions.

[WoeStorm]

This whole thread is gay and you should feel bad for adopting it as a thread you should debate in. See what I did there guys?

[Lag]

All scientific sources in this thread are irrelevant because those studies only apply to people.

[hmn47]

This thread has run it's course, I'm going to start another shitty debate thread now.

[Crabstick]

Also, people pass ideals and traits to thier children, stands to reason that gay-adopts would have a slightley higher chance of bieng gay. If a dad likes baseball, chances are his son will to, after years of playing baseball with dad.
Going by this theory, most boys grow up wanting to fuck their own mothers because their dad's been doing it for years.

[BreakTheWalls]

This thread has run it's course, I'm going to start another shitty debate thread now.
Oh god please don't. I've already lost enough brain cells today, as has everyone else.

[hmn47]

This thread is now about you're faverite type of bird.

[Lag]

Peacock

[El Zilcho]

hmn7, just close the thread.

[The_Solipsist]

Going by this theory, most boys grow up wanting to fuck their own mothers because their dad's been doing it for years.

Oedipus Complex.

[Ikin]

A gay couple is just as capable at raising children as a straight couple.

Genetics can be influenced by the environment. You can have genes that allow you to be 6 feet tall, but without proper diet, etc, you might necessarily end up that tall. In the same way, the genes for sexual orientation could be influenced by factors in a person's environment, although to be honest I don't know what factors they would be.

[Casalen]

To expand on it, Freud (who is full of crap) thought that all kids grew up wanting to fuck their own mothers, but then they're supposed to grow out of it. But sometimes they don't.

And why would I want to adopt a gay kid? They really need to sell me on the benefits before I consider gay adoption.

[jewishjosh]

Alright, fuck, this is long, so I'll be honest and say I've barely read a word of it.

My best friend was raised by lesbians, one of whom is his biological mother. He has a healthy relationship with his biological father. He is one of the most balanced people I will ever meet, and that's fucking impressive at 17. The orientation of the parents affects the outcome of the child much, much less than other parental factors, such as if they're good role models and stuff.

[DoctorButt]

Holy shit,someone close this theard.

[Idioteque]

Yeah it's like harassing Idioteque.

Yeah but who would do that? :hmm:

Also, being a homophobe often means you are repressing your own feelings towards men.

[hoopymo]

Going by this theory, most boys grow up wanting to fuck their own mothers because their dad's been doing it for years.


This shits getting Freudian.


Also this threads really gay.

[Hats of!]

Children will not have a higher chance of turning out gay if their parents are. If you'd do some studies you'll see that there's no serious case of this ever happening. You just want an excuse to make it seem non-cultural.

Edit: Even if there were a slim chance that children to gay parents would turn out hugely "out-there" homosexuals that still wouldn't matter. There's nothing wrong with being of an alternative sexuality.

[opn4bzns]

This is by far the most elaborate trolling I've ever seen.

Pretty sure he's not, actually. He's fucking dedicated if he is, he's been posting like this for months.

[Leberkaese]

I don't say that it's (homosex.) wrong, but heterosexuality still is the more natural/common sexual orientation (over 90% of the world's population).
The main reason why we still exist, is because people have been putting penises into vaginas and not into asses.
I think having heterosexual kids is the preferable option. Even if I were a gay dad I would want my kid to become hetero, because its life would just be easier that way.

[Laurence]

Homosexuality is a minority, the numbers aren't going to spiral out of control or anything. No one is telling anyone to stop putting penises into vaginas. That isn't going to stop happening. If you think otherwise you're a complete moron and most likely a bigot. It's also not as though people are choosing to have gay children. It's just something that happens and not very commonly.

Anyway, all of this has already been covered.

[Tweek]

Fags are bad and if they have kids the fag kids will fag up all the other kids and pretty soon we'll all be fags with cocks in our mouths and in our asses.

[Leberkaese]

Fags are bad and if they have kids the fag kids will fag up all the other kids and pretty soon we'll all be fags with cocks in our mouths and in our asses.

Thanks, that's what I was trying to say :lol:

No really, I think every kid has the right to have a father and a mother and not only two of a kind.

[Tyler_Legrand]

I don't say that it's (homosex.) wrong, but heterosexuality still is the more natural/common sexual orientation (over 90% of the world's population).
The main reason why we still exist, is because people have been putting penises into vaginas and not into asses.
I think having heterosexual kids is the preferable option. Even if I were a gay dad I would want my kid to become hetero, because its life would just be easier that way.

Agreed, same reason why I'd prefer to adopt only white children.

[exetra]

Let's just kill all the coloureds and sodomites. That'll solve everything.

[Leberkaese]

Agreed, same reason why I'd prefer to adopt only white children.

That's a stupid comparison and I hope you know why.

[Laurence]

No it's not, because it's easier being Caucasian than another skin colour, just like you said that being heterosexual is easier than be homosexual, which it is.

[Tweek]

Plus who'd want to adopt a kid that isn't white anyway?

[Laurence]

Other than celebrities?

[Antisaint]

The only actual difference between kids raised by straight or gay parents is that the kids raised by gays are more likely to experiment sexually. There's no evidence that more gay comes from gay parents, or more gay comes from straight parents.

Also children of lesbos are stronger feminists.

[fat-red-chicken]

Thanks, that's what I was trying to say :lol:

No really, I think every kid has the right to have a father and a mother and not only two of a kind.

Oh shit, so if a kid's dad dies mom had better find another husband fast!

Now seriously, people's views on correct child-rearing have changed over and over in like the past 50 years because nobody actually knows what they're talking about. It's my opinion that all a child really needs is some kind of supportive caretaker/rolemodel to turn out okay, not parents who strictly conform to social norms. Until people find a valid reason against gay adoption, I'm all for it because we need some place to put all those un-aborted babies.

[rapist]

This is a Gay Adoption debate thread. I'm against it.

I am posting in this thread. I am for it.

[bobbinter]

Plus who'd want to adopt a kid that isn't white anyway?

I dont see why anybody would necessarily want to or not want to.

[Tyler_Legrand]

I think that was one of many jokes.

[bobbinter]

I think that was one of many jokes.

Its hard to tell sometimes.

[Crabstick]

The main reason why we still exist, is because people have been putting penises into vaginas and not into asses.

Oh god please bring back quote sigs.