The US is the greatest country on Earth.

[Casalen]

So I've tried to watch news networks, especially last week, and couldn't take it for long. The first had too much of a snobby attitude and concentration on the last administration, the second was about Bruce Willis in a photoshoot which, while interesting, lasted too long. The last one was almost fine, they were reporting on the issues in Iran. The thing that bothered me is that they didn't just report on it; they went into the story with 'President Obama remarked today that he was concerned about...' then the Iran stuff. That annoyed me pretty quickly, and is something I've seen plenty of times before in the news. No matter what it is or where it happens, somehow it's about us and what's going on in our borders, or what our government should be getting its hands into.

In school we have to study the US more than anything else. Off the top of my head I can think of a California based history, Constitution only and two US History classes, while Ancient History was dropped from my high school. Some students are assigned essays and the like about why we're so great. It's not uncommon to hear people talk about how great we are, how influential we are, that we're the most free people on the planet, 'love it or leave it', shit like that.

So, to my point: is it like this everywhere? For those of you who aren't in the US, how far does the patriotism culture go? Is your country's leader supposed to be the second coming of Christ like ours is? Alternatively, is everything actually about the United States and are we the best country on Earth? If so, I apologize to any news reporters who may have been offended by this.

Also consider mentioning why you hate the news, regardless of country.

[MrChrisso]

the second was about Bruce Willis in a photoshoot which, while interesting, lasted too long.

??

[Sieda]

So I've tried to watch news networks, especially last week, and couldn't take it for long. The first had too much of a snobby attitude and concentration on the last administration, the second was about Bruce Willis in a photoshoot which, while interesting, lasted too long. The last one was almost fine, they were reporting on the issues in Iran. The thing that bothered me is that they didn't just report on it; they went into the story with 'President Obama remarked today that he was concerned about...' then the Iran stuff. That annoyed me pretty quickly, and is something I've seen plenty of times before in the news. No matter what it is or where it happens, somehow it's about us and what's going on in our borders, or what our government should be getting its hands into.

In school we have to study the US more than anything else. Off the top of my head I can think of a California based history, Constitution only and two US History classes, while Ancient History was dropped from my high school. Some students are assigned essays and the like about why we're so great. It's not uncommon to hear people talk about how great we are, how influential we are, that we're the most free people on the planet, 'love it or leave it', shit like that.

So, to my point: is it like this everywhere? For those of you who aren't in the US, how far does the patriotism culture go? Is your country's leader supposed to be the second coming of Christ like ours is? Alternatively, is everything actually about the United States and are we the best country on Earth? If so, I apologize to any news reporters who may have been offended by this.

Also consider mentioning why you hate the news, regardless of country.


When I was in school I got so fucking frustrated at this shit, I spent a lot of my free time on the internet, and in encyclopedias learning about the world.

Luckily I also had some pretty rad social studies teachers who understood that we were spoon fed that patriotic history crap since kindergarten and tried to race through the "required material" so we could get to other more relevant things.

[tank0ticz]

In Australia, you might be surprised by how focused our media is on the US. We had basically full coverage of your recent election, but that may be because our countries are relatively politically "close". We get all the shitty Hollywood gossip. Tonnes of shitty American sitcoms(let's face it there are a fair few). In recent memory we've been more focused on America politically than we have on Britain.

We are pretty keen on our nations past, but what country isn't? Although throughout school we do learn a fair bit about other countries past and great historical times in the world. From what I've heard America is fairly insular and think they are greatest, but it appears to be a hot topic to pick on America. I do know one person that is wholly convinced that America is the best country in the world, American born of course.

[opn4bzns]

Australia is pleasantly unpatriotic, except for bogans. We do a disproportionately large amount of history about white settlement here, though. Commercial/cable news here is trashy shit (still better than what I've seen of american news though), but ABC and SBS (public broadcaster and multicultural broadcasters respectively) have solid, reasonably neutral news about important stuff.

[Dauntasa]

Well, up here in Canada, we don't really go all-out on patriotism like you guys do. To put it bluntly, we aren't fucking insane about how great our country is. If you went out on the street in Canada and asked a bunch of people what they thought about the country , you'd probably get a lot of "Yeah, s'alright" and "Eh, could be better". On the news, things don't get made about Canada when they really aren't as much as in the States, but a little bit of that is to be expected because it connects people to the issue a bit more. I mean, you can report on something happening in Iran but it won't really mean anything to anybody in Canada or the US unless the news network gives us the view of somebody we know.

[TheGodfather]

In England we're not exactly at the best of terms with out 'leader' right now. The St. George's Day parades had to have their funding removed because of political correctness. Our news is usually about: MP's, War or America. It actually reached our newspapers that Barack Obama swatted a fly, fantastic. And when I was taught history we didn't really learn about England, I don't know if it's the same for other schools in England but we did, WW1 and WW2, The Holocaust, Prohibition and Civil Rights (which was all about America). It actually annoyed my grandad, who is quite patriotic, that we didn't learn about Nelson and others like that.

[hollywood_maggot]

In Australia, you might be surprised by how focused our media is on the US. We had basically full coverage of your recent election, but that may be because our countries are relatively politically "close". We get all the shitty Hollywood gossip. Tonnes of shitty American sitcoms(let's face it there are a fair few). In recent memory we've been more focused on America politically than we have on Britain.

We are pretty keen on our nations past, but what country isn't? Although throughout school we do learn a fair bit about other countries past and great historical times in the world. From what I've heard America is fairly insular and think they are greatest, but it appears to be a hot topic to pick on America. I do know one person that is wholly convinced that America is the best country in the world, American born of course.

We're keen on our nature's past? Since when? I don't know a single person who enjoys learning about Australian History or Geography. Australian's (for the most part) aren't particularly patriotic in the way that America is, but...like anyone I guess, we generally appreciate our country as a better one and we're thoroughly unsportsmanlike when it comes to competitions.

[sprene]

I'm from Canada too, and I agree with what Dauntasa said. Obviously they try and give a local perspective to things, but there's rarely any over-the-top patriotism in schools or on the news.

For high school social studies courses (in Manitoba at least), the mandatory ones are grade 9 SS (can't remember what all we did there, my teacher was lazy as hell), grade 10 geography, and grade 11 Canadian history.
For Canadian history, we covered first settlers and the fur trade and the disputes between French and English settlers and the World Wars and big things like that, and it was all from a Canadian perspective, but the textbooks don't preach about Canada kicking tons of ass or anything. For WW1, we talked about the battles that Canada was involved in, but we did the good (ie. Vimy Ridge) and the bad (ie. Dieppe; that was a shitstorm).

I like to think we're pretty neutral. Thankfully there aren't too many fanatics around to upset everything.

Oh, and there are a couple optional social studies courses in grade 12, like Western Civilization (history of Europe, Crusades, the New World, etc.) and Geo40S. I THINK we have an American History class that we can take as an option too.


EDIT: About the US, we don't learn very much about you guys. We talked about a couple battles between Canada and the US, but we don't learn any in-depth US information.
The class with the most to do with the US this year for me was economics, because I was a month or so into the course when the big stock market crash/recession happened, and that's basically all we talked about all semester. We watched many news clips from US networks.

[Boof]

Im Australian, and, at least at my school, i've never found there to be much emphasis on our own history in high school. I remember doing about 3 quarters of a year of history focused on Australia, but thats about it, and i have a real sketchy knowledge of my own nation's history as a result... Or perhaps its because i found the course particularly dry and uninteresting.

As far as American history goes, all i remember doing was the Cuban missle crisis, and Lincoln and the slaves. I've elected to do Modern History as a subject for the last couple of years and the course seems have focused primarily on countries like Germany and Russia. So no, i've never really felt like cock of national pride has been shoved down my throat.

[Putzmeister]

Studying history in an Australian school, in my final year that is. And I was surprised how little we learn about Australian history, I mean they touch on the stolen generation and that is all. We do study America a lot, mainly because I'm doing revolutions, and America seems to involve itself in anything history has to offer. But having a Canadian teacher who lived in America I've learned a lot. How American schooling (only talking about the American Revolution here) was solely based on how great America is. And how George Washington was the greatest man on the face of the planet at the time, from what he tells me, is all they learn about. Learning that he was often an incompetent General who lost the majority of his engagements is something that they aren't taught. Only speaking from secondary evidence, feel free to prove me wrong. But that's what I've been told from a teacher who actually taught in the US.

And for Australian culture? I would like to think we are a majorly patriotic nation, especially when it comes to anything sport related. Although facets of our multiculturalism annoy me, like when people emigrate here, and make no effort to assimilate into our culture, and then despise the fact they they are AUSTRALIAN. But I do enjoy anything Australia related, I love living here in fact I don't think that I would ever move, maybe to New Zealand (yes I know a cardinal sin).

[Sieda]

Studying history in an Australian school, in my final year that is. And I was surprised how little we learn about Australian history, I mean they touch on the stolen generation and that is all. We do study America a lot, mainly because I'm doing revolutions, and America seems to involve itself in anything history has to offer. But having a Canadian teacher who lived in America I've learned a lot. How American schooling (only talking about the American Revolution here) was solely based on how great America is. And how George Washington was the greatest man on the face of the planet at the time, from what he tells me, is all they learn about. Learning that he was generally an often an incompetent who lost the majority of his engagements is something that they aren't taught. Only speaking from secondary evidence, feel free to prove me wrong. But that's what I've been told from a teacher who actually taught in the US.

And for Australian culture? I would like to think we are a majorly patriotic nation, especially when it comes to anything sport related. Although facets of our multiculturalism annoy me, like when people emigrate here, and make no effort to assimilate into our culture, and then despise the fact they they are AUSTRALIAN. But I do enjoy anything Australia related, I love living here in fact I don't think that I would ever move, maybe to New Zealand (yes I know a cardinal sin).

Speaking of the Revolutionary War, we really like to underscore how much the French assisted us in elements critical to our success (Training our soldiers, blockading the English, that sort of thing) They're probably one of our best allies, and we've borrowed so much of their culture... yet many Americans would just as soon spit on their name than recognize the contributions they've made to our country.

Also, we never EVER study anything about Middle Eastern, African, or Asian history, unless it's regarding slavery or the Vietnam war.

I honestly feel that the way education is handled in our country... we're going out of our way to cripple our youth with ignorance.

[hollywood_maggot]

The fact of the matter is, Australia is multicultural. That fact makes me feel patriotic. The stereotypical 'australia' is white. Australia is a lot more than that. But I do get what you're saying and it shits me too. But not quite as much as the shithead uber 'patriotic' bogans.

Well, its compulsory to do Aussie history and geography in year 9 and 10 now. Which is shit boring. Actually, they throw aussie stuff into almost every subject in year 9 and 10.

[Seattle_Steven]

Australian patriotism is based 90% on sports, the history is boring as fuck, and we have shitty slang ("vege", "barbies", "footy", "top bloke", "true blue aussie" (WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN?)).
Can you believe our Olympic anthem or whatever is "AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE! OI! OI! OI!". Oi, usually accompanied by "cunt" is a word you use to get someone's attention.
All this is made worse with shitty accents.

[BlackHood]

For my GCSE History I had to study:

The Wild West
Medicine Through Time

Neither paid any attention to British history in anything more than a passing comment. The only English people I got to know about from the better part of 2500 years of history were Jenner, Flemming and Nightingale, but I spent about 3 months looking at Arabic Surgery.

We have very little sense of institutionalised patriotism.

Edit: My spell check tried to correct patriotism to parasitism, maybe it was right?

[Mystrangy]

In Sweden we learn quite a bit of the past wars in Sweden and such, but only for a year or so. We learned about the settlers and the industrial revolution when we read about America, but most of the time we read about the Greek and Egyptians.

Some of us are fairly patriotic, but nothing serious. It's a decent country with good food and climate.

[Laurence]

And for Australian culture? I would like to think we are a majorly patriotic nation, especially when it comes to anything sport related. Although facets of our multiculturalism annoy me, like when people emigrate here, and make no effort to assimilate into our culture, and then despise the fact they they are AUSTRALIAN.

Are you fucking serious? Do you even realise who infrequently that happens? Try actually talking to some immigrants and you'll realise how grateful they are to flee from their often poverty-stricken, war-torn countries to somewhere politically and socially stable like Australia. Just because they don't all start wandering around in thongs shooting their mouths off about how amazing their local rugby league/AFL team is while gulping down the state's beer of choice certainly does not mean that they despise the fact that they are Australian. You can't expect people to completely abandon their heritage simply because they live elsewhere. That's freaking retarded.

[Seattle_Steven]

Are you talking from personal experience Putzmeister? I've heard of people rejecting the culture like when those rapes were going on in Sydney, but their parents were probably the immigrants.
But seriously, the whole anti-immigration attitude is mostly based on nothing and casual racism that seems to be everywhere.

[Pieman]

Australians stop learning about white Australians in year 4, but for the next 6 years it's compulsory to have 1 term of Aboriginal sob stories for half the subjects and at least 5 showings of "The Rabbit Proof Fence" shoved down your throat a year, and then have the option of having more if you chose Modern History, Society and Culture (Which is actually pretty good other than it and the Amish stuff) or Aboriginal Studies as a subject.
Abo's have the most boring culture ever.

[Quadros]

Yeah in England we never really focused on how great Britain is. Most of my history classes involved British history but it was mostly '...and then we fucked THESE guys up' and modern history, as in the actual development of today's society. We did vietnam, weirdly.

British culture is at odds with itself at the moment. There's a lot of talk of patriotism, but it doesn't come from the government or any other real institution, it's mostly just a knee jerk reaction to the massive amounts of political correctness that's going on. For example my home town wasn't allowed a St George's Day parade because they thought it would offend the non-english community. And you're not allowed to fly St George's flags for the same reason. I'm not a patriot, far from it, but that's just fucking ridiculous.

The thing I hate about our media is that they're always trying to catch the government out. When they do they're not all like 'isn't it terrible that this has happened' It's all like 'we caught them doing something!' it's fucking annoying. For example the Telegraph discovered that MPs were abusing their expenses budget and spent 20 DAYS breaking that news. For 20 DAYS that was on their front pages. Likewise, when the leader of the opposition had his bike stolen a newspaper had loads of pictures of it and a good laugh at his expense. Why would they not actually go up and STOP THE FUCKING ROBBERY???

Because they're immoral arseholes. That's why.

[Chriz]

In Ireland, in the beginnings of your awesome school adventure, you learn about the Normans, Vikings and crap, then onto ancient English History, with what ever the hell Ireland was doing at the time. Then its the Romans and the settlers of America afterwards.

Years on later, its the Two World Wars, then the Black Civil Rights March of America and then the Cold War etc

In between all that it is the history of Ireland and Northern Ireland, the creation of the Republic and the build up to the war against the English and the troubles.

Glad I'm out of all that.

[TheGodfather]

British culture is at odds with itself at the moment. There's a lot of talk of patriotism, but it doesn't come from the government or any other real institution, it's mostly just a knee jerk reaction to the massive amounts of political correctness that's going on. For example my home town wasn't allowed a St George's Day parade because they thought it would offend the non-english community.

But have you noticed how it's perfectly OK for us to go all out for St. Patrick's Day? You can't say we can't celebrate our saints day, and then celebrate someone elses, but if one year we decide no more St. Patrick's Day parades we'll offend the Irish so we'd have to host them, but when you offend the English it's perfectly fine.

[Casalen]

Putz, I can verify a bit on that founding fathers thing, especially Washington. It's pretty taboo to say anything bad about them or think of them as real people.

Anyway, I think we can all agree that this is the most important part of my original post:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/06/15/article-1193218-0559A112000005DC-608_468x442.jpg

Maybe NSFW.

[Seattle_Steven]

His dick is probably hard but you can't see it.

[TheTacticalBadger]

.... But I do enjoy anything Australia related, I love living here in fact I don't think that I would ever move, maybe to New Zealand (yes I know a cardinal sin).

Hey, over a million of you lot came here last year just for holidays :lol:

New Zealand is vaguely patriotic except that it's more pride in our Maori culture than being an independent nation. We pretty much circlejerk over the Haka and anything vaguely Maori, ignoring anything anyone else achieves except in very rare circumstances. It frustrates me that from the age of 5 we are taught about the Treaty Of Waitangi (a pretty major treaty in New Zealand history) from a Maori point of view but we learn nothing else about New Zealand history for the rest of our schooling. In High School the history courses deal with Black Civil Rights in the US, Irish history and the buildup to WWII.

[InnerDemon]

Here in Romania we do cling on our ancient history a lot because Herodotus said in one of his works that "the Dacians are the bravest of the Thracian kind". So our national identity (lacking so many other qualities) desperately repeats that passage to make everyone believe we indeed are brave and some sort of special people, unlike the other peoples. However, the History teachers usually "forget" to mention the other part of what Herodotus said, about the Dacians raiding and robbing the neighbouring peoples. I guess that doesn't sound as good as "the bravest" eh?


Romania doesn't quite have important deeds in the modern history either. We changed sides during both World Wars (in the beginning being on the German's side only to end up as allies of the Entente) so History classes focus more on the general view of European history rather than on our history.

About the president being the second coming of Christ, no. By no means. Hell no. The current president is loathed and that's what happens to every one of them. They get elected, people wait for a couple of months to see some results then the hatred begins. Truth be told, the political class is very corrupted and all candidates are of the same kind. There's not much to choose from.

People are no longer patriotic. I don't know if they've ever been or it's just nowadays. They try as much as possible to leave the country, especially the ones who graduate, seeking a better place. This is detrimental to us because if there's someone who can change something, it's the youth. And the youth is running away. No one can blame them though. Heck, I'd leave myself were I to have the chance.

About the news, yeah, I hate them. There's nothing but cheap news about how the prime-minister has bought himself a new motorcycle or how the president went shopping by himself in a mall. Or there's the other kind of news, the depressing ones about how "X, being drunk, killed Y with an axe" or how the floods devastated a region and so on and so forth. So I prefer not watching the news.

All in all, Romania is nowhere near the greatest country to live in.

[hollywood_maggot]

Yeah in England we never really focused on how great Britain is. Most of my history classes involved British history but it was mostly '...and then we fucked THESE guys up' and modern history, as in the actual development of today's society. We did vietnam, weirdly.


British history is actually interesting though. But British patriotism is loving the Queen, and that's about how far it goes really. And sport, but that's every country (although, rarely is it as extreme as in Australia, which I personally hate).

And yeah, the earlier comments about being 'Australian' - I basically think Australia is defined by its multi-culturism and it's laid-back attitude (and unfortunately, it's obsession with sport), but alot of people seem to think its a bunch of other shit, that's really just what the white culture does.

[Heksen]

More on-topic:

Here in Belgium, the news focuses a lot on America. Everytime Obama says something, there's an newsreport about it. It's like the president of the USA is the ruler of the entire world.

[Urser]

Everyone knows the solar system revolves around America.

[Putzmeister]

Are you talking from personal experience Putzmeister? I've heard of people rejecting the culture like when those rapes were going on in Sydney, but their parents were probably the immigrants.
But seriously, the whole anti-immigration attitude is mostly based on nothing and casual racism that seems to be everywhere.

Limited personal experience. But yes in Australia casual racism, from any denomination, seems to have become common place. I don't condone it, I don't often use it. But it has become apart of what Australia is. Which is a shame.

Are you fucking serious? Do you even realise how infrequently that happens? Try actually talking to some immigrants and you'll realise how grateful they are to flee from their often poverty-stricken, war-torn countries to somewhere politically and socially stable like Australia. Just because they don't all start wandering around in thongs shooting their mouths off about how amazing their local rugby league/AFL team is while gulping down the state's beer of choice certainly does not mean that they despise the fact that they are Australian. You can't expect people to completely abandon their heritage simply because they live elsewhere. That's freaking retarded.

I was not saying it happens often, but when it happens rarely, it shits me up the wall. As an EXAMPLE, there is this shit and his 'posse' at my school, who are descendant from Italians, weren't born there, never even been there, yet they rant on about how much better Italy is than Australia, and say how they would much rather live over there. Now I'm not a racist, multiculturalism is what makes Australia the place it is. And although it doesn't happen often, when individuals move to a country, and live there permanently and never attempt to become 'Australian' fly's in the face of everything that is Australia, not the thongs, not the beer, not the slogans but an area of at least attempted Patriotism, I believe, is necessary. I never said they should annex their own culture entirely, but at least make an attempt to become apart of the country that THEY live in.

[ShockWave]

About the US, we don't learn very much about you guys. We talked about a couple battles between Canada and the US, but we don't learn any in-depth US information.
This is true, my education was pretty similar; I've learned bits and pieces about the US, but most content was primarily Canadian, even in University. What I find bizarre is how little some Americans know about Canada. I mean, I'm not saying I'd make an effort to learn anything about Canada if I were an American, but it seems some people know absolutely nothing. A recent example: my parents met a women at a wedding a few weekends ago from California -- it was her first trip to Canada. She didn't know what BC was, she had no clue where Toronto or Ontario were (she thought they were near BC), was blown away that it was hot outside, didn't know what a province was, didn't understand our government at all, etc. She asked who our President was, to which my mom replied "Same as yours, Barack Obama is for 6 months of the year, and the Queen is for the other 6", and she believed her (we have a Prime Minister, by the way). They also told her our Parliament buildings are made of ice.

By no means do I think this is common (is it?), but it baffles me how ignorant she sounded. She was in her 30s, too. These things aren't exactly obscure cultural facts. I've known America has States and uses the imperial system since I was a child. It doesn't take any effort to know these things, which is why I find it a bit strange. I realize apathy is the biggest reason; I mean, who cares right? But goddamn, it's the 21st bloody century, there's so much information available to people know there's really no excuse.

As far as patriotism, I think it's a pretty healthy thing, and that it should be encouraged given that the bases for patriotism are realistic, which isn't always the case.

[Adamski]

Patriotism is a crutch. I've known plenty of people who ranted on about how they were proud British, and I've known plenty of people who were proud Irish and they were all as deluded as each other.

The issue is huge. Nothing wrong with being appreciative that you live in one of the more well off country's; where we arnt poor, we arn't hungry and we arn't living in fear. But that doesn't mean that your 'country' is better than anyone elses.

And it definitly doesn't mean that just because your mum crapped you out on that certain patch of dirt, that you are in any way qualified to start being proud... as though you played some sort of role in the past.

Once you begin dismantling this sense of self, you will realise how little any of this matters.

[Laurence]

I was not saying it happens often, but when it happens rarely, it shits me up the wall. As an EXAMPLE, there is this shit and his 'posse' at my school, who are descendant from Italians, weren't born there, never even been there, yet they rant on about how much better Italy is than Australia, and say how they would much rather live over there. Now I'm not a racist, multiculturalism is what makes Australia the place it is. And although it doesn't happen often, when individuals move to a country, and live there permanently and never attempt to become 'Australian' fly's in the face of everything that is Australia, not the thongs, not the beer, not the slogans but an area of at least attempted Patriotism, I believe, is necessary. I never said they should annex their own culture entirely, but at least make an attempt to become apart of the country that THEY live in.

That's the thing. I always thought that Australia laughed off the inherent arrogance of patriotism. The Cronulla riots, for example, hinted that that isn't true. I'm not entirely sure when being Australian became something to be proud of anyway - aside from those who have migrated here, some of us are only the second or third generation descendants of people who were born in another country anyway, some of us are descended from convicts and the rest are descended from people who committed or supported a massive genocide. We really don't have a lot to be proud of historically.

We do, however, have a society and economy which are built upon multiculturalism without which we'd be a floundering mess. We also have some pretty natural landmarks and a couple of man-made, architectural ones in Sydney, both of which were designed by non-Australians.

I don't think it's our place to say whether or not people who migrate here conform to our societal norms at all, let alone what those societal norms are. I always entertained the idea that Australia was a place where you could just live and not give a flying fuck about what other people did as long as you weren't pissing anybody off or breaking the law. That seems a lot better than, "FUCK OFF, WE'RE FULL" or "SPEAK ENGLISH IN MY COUNTRY" both of which I have heard shouted at non-Australians. One of whom was a good friend of mine who is of Asian extraction but was born here and sounds just as Australian as the rest of us.

As for your EXAMPLE, it is a poor one, considering you originally said "when people emigrate here". Those kids you're describing aren't unpatriotics migrants, they're arrogant little fuckwits who'll probably end up in prison for glassing their girlfriends.

[Putzmeister]

I'm not disagreeing that Australia relies on multiculturalism, in fact I am agreeing that it is an integral part, of both our economy and our culture. I believe my original thoughts have been over exaggerated. It is my opinion that an element of patriotism is necessary in society, not saying Australia is a shining example either. It creates a sense of uniformity, and no matter what you do anywhere, you are bound to piss one or more people off, even if it wasn't you're intention originally. You can either agree or disagree that an element, no matter how small, of patriotism is an integral part of any countries society. Obviously you don't, but I understand where you're coming from.

[Tweek]

Australia has a shit culture. Needs more class. :mmyes:

[Godly]

The US has to teach their kids that they're the fucking greatest thing ever and turn them into patriotic lobbyists for pro-America, otherwise when they grown up they might get a clue and figure out how not-so-great the US is...

[Frobes]

I liked the US better when Obama wasn't around. His presidency is going in the wrong direction and I think people are starting to realize that. But why would you not teach your kids to be patriotic? If we just told them all the bad things that happen and none of the good, why would they want to live there? Every country works like that, not just America.

[Septem]

Never have I seen anyone write a report or an essey with the title "Why XYZ the best country in the World is". I would openly disagree and oppose such a title. It's not patriotism or something, it's pure propaganda, forced into students.

Oh, funny thing, our most important national holiday is tomorrow.

[Laurence]

I liked the US better when Obama wasn't around. His presidency is going in the wrong direction and I think people are starting to realize that.

It's like they were The Dark Ages and you're the Catholic Church.

[BlackHood]

I think the sheer fact that Obama hasn't made any internationally-mock-worthy faux pas makes him a step up from the old regime.

[Seattle_Steven]

I liked the US better when Obama wasn't around. His presidency is going in the wrong direction and I think people are starting to realize that.

How so sir?

[MrChrisso]

Yeah, I agree with most of you on here. Well, except Urser. The solar system doesn't revolve around America...don't know where you heard that. But I do agree that pride over something as silly as genetics, location of birth, whatever it might be, is stupid. It's an illusion and there's absolutely no reason to flaunt those kind of things, it only divides us further rather than unites us.

The only example I can think of off the top of my head is when black people say "Black power!" and then giggle and high five each other. I hate that! It's really annoys the hell outta me. I mean, I'm not racist. I like hip hop. But, I think a lot of radio has been deluded by what is considered "hip hop" today. It doesn't really mean anything like it used to. In the past, people would actually rap about stuff that mattered to them, but now it's like the majority of the rappers out there are writing obscene material about women and money but with vocabulary you might find in a childrens book. I absolutely hate how they literally stir up controversy just for sales. It's not really about the art anymore, it's just about being as offensive as possible.

With the way things are headed right now, I could see mainstream radio exclusively playing songs whose lyrics seem to go out of their way to denounce Christianity. It's ridiculous, the cash cow that is the media industry. Unfortunately, controversy does indeed sell. However, I find it kinda funny how the popular rappers today who have gone out of their way to degrade women and glorify violence through their stupid lyrics wouldn't dare cross the Church, yet their influence will set off a storm throughout the next generation of rappers who will undoubtedly cross that threshold, denounce God, call it art and be set for life.

Ugh.

[Smiley_120]

So, to my point: is it like this everywhere? For those of you who aren't in the US, how far does the patriotism culture go?

I think there's a big difference between patriotism and being close-minded. I hate generalizing and saying American's are daft, coz i know very little about it actually (simply because I've never realy been interested); but I think if that is really what's happening in your education system someone has to be punched in the face - hard! As far as I understand the US is only a country, and the history of the rest of the world is as important as that of the country itself. And frankly, I think that applies to any education system. It's certainly lacking here in South Africa as well, where they are trying to change our education system to only include history of the black cultures in South Africa, and to not learn so much about the Apartheid era, almost like they're trying to erase it. And that, I think, is a very very bad move also. Because that specific time, is a time we can learn soooo much from, and thus it needs to be remembered. In the same way, the US should teach history of the whole world... so much more to learn.

[Aramon]

I think the sheer fact that Obama hasn't made any internationally-mock-worthy faux pas makes him a step up from the old regime.

He bowed to a muslim leader from the Middle East. Kind of a faux pas in my book...

[The Muffin Man]

American textbooks and courses are so horribly one sided it's painful. Basic american history is we fucked these dudes up, these dudes tried to fuck with us but we fucked them, and these dudes were just chilling here but we got pissed so we fucked them up too. I mean really, american history is started by drunk pissed off englishman who said fuck england and started their own damn country.

It's sickening to take US history. All they do is talk about how we killed everyone and won everything. We skip all the atrocities the US committed, but spend plenty of time on Nazis and Japs. The US is full of blind patriotism because they simply don't teach us that we are not perfect. Every president was perfect, we won every war, and we won it better and faster than anyone else ever could have.

Fucking ridiculous.

[Laurence]

He bowed to a muslim leader from the Middle East. Kind of a faux pas in my book...

Because that surely is a nation-changing gesture to have an effect for years to come which is comparable to the invasion of Iraq!

[JaydenB]

Australia's decent, theres not alot of whats going on in America, but, if you see australians wearing thongs, boardies and wearing our flag cape style, ignore them because they're racist bogan mongoloids who "love australia".

[jewishjosh]

Likewise, when the leader of the opposition had his bike stolen a newspaper had loads of pictures of it and a good laugh at his expense. Why would they not actually go up and STOP THE FUCKING ROBBERY???
It puzzles me to no end why someone would report atrocities, from petty theft to genocide, when it is easily within their power to prevent it instead.

It's sickening to take US history. All they do is talk about how we killed everyone and won everything. We skip all the atrocities the US committed, but spend plenty of time on Nazis and Japs. The US is full of blind patriotism because they simply don't teach us that we are not perfect. Every president was perfect, we won every war, and we won it better and faster than anyone else ever could have.
In the spirit of mild-mannered Canadianism, I have to agree with the other Canadians who have posted so far (sprene and Dauntasa). We'd never get such a disgustingly biased view that you've described. It's never "Canada is great here's why," instead it's "this is what Canada did and how it affected our self-image and our place on the global stage, for better or for worse." I doubt many Canadian high school students could recite our Prime Ministers because quite frankly, nobody gives a fuck because they're interchangeable cogs in a machine unless put in historical context with what they accomplished and the effects they had. Canada draws patriotism from apathy, which I think is fantastically ironic, and because of that I think we're able to recognize ourselves for what we are and see our place in the world from an outsider's perspective more easily.

Although our history courses touch on some stuff that nobody else would ever care about, such as the fur trade, First Nations peoples, and the history of Canadian confederation, throughout high school I've been exposed to a healthy snapshot of the world. Grade 8 we didn't focus on Canadian history at all, instead we looked at everything that happened in the world (Europe, Middle East, China - I guess Africa still doesn't really count but what we got was better than nothing) from the fall of the Roman Empire until post-Renaissance. Grade 9 we started the year talking about the seeds of modern political philosophy: Hobbes, Locke, Voltaire, Rousseau, etc. Granted, it was scaled down to an appropriate level of depth for 14-year olds, but the time we spent not talking about colonial Canada was what made me interested in humanities, social sciences, and history.

As for our news, I don't watch news on TV, but I can imagine it's got a decent mix of Canadian news, world news, and local news, probably in that order. In the papers, it all depends what you read. The local papers are designed to present local issues, and the national one that I read covers both Canadian and global issues, although I'd say there's more emphasis on Canada. There could certainly be a bit more depth to the global stories they report, not just because Canadian politics is over-reported, but also because it's boring as fuck. The Iran coverage has been pretty good so far though, I've seen lots of focus on the actual conflict and very little on the West's reactions. The shit that sickens me is this Obama-fly "story" - save some trees and stop printing this utter crap, because nobody cares.

Anyway, to conclude my rant, I have definitely observed that Canada sees the world through a much broader lens than the US does. However, that's not to say that most Canadians know the US political system inside out at a depth at which most Americans would never understand Canadian politics or social issues. I'm probably more aware than many because that's my nature. But if you take a sampling of Canadians and Americans to see who's more globally aware, without a doubt, on average, Canada would come out on top.

[lolguy]

Ugh, I hate how the kids in America are force fed from an early age that our country is the greatest thing ever and that if anything ever happens to us we're going to go fuck over whoever did what to us. When I got into middle school, I finally got teachers who taught us that we weren't the greatest thing ever, and that there are actually cooler countries than us.
I don't see us as being awesome compared to everyone else. In fact, I see us as being second to some other countries. I like my country as much as the next guy, but I'm not a fanatic who ignores all the good qualities of other places, and focuses only on the bad parts, so they have a bullshit argument on how their country is great.

[Sieda]

I think the sheer fact that Obama hasn't made any internationally-mock-worthy faux pas makes him a step up from the old regime.

Exactly. I feel like he's been doing alright so far, given the extremely shitty circumstances he's faced with. I think most people are just sick of the media playing it up every time he takes a shit.

He bowed to a muslim leader from the Middle East. Kind of a faux pas in my book...

Right. Because showing respect even though you have differences of opinion is such a terrible thing. He should have invaded them instead.

[Pitabread]

Exactly. I feel like he's been doing alright so far, given the extremely shitty circumstances he's faced with. I think most people are just sick of the media playing it up every time he takes a shit.

Interestingly enough, I was in the car with my mom and she was listening to a talk radio station and they were talking about Obama taking a shit in a restaurant.

I'm assuming its nearly the same in the rest of America, but in my high school my required history courses were a year of geography, a year of world history, and a year of US history or recent US history. I think our problem is that we do study SOME world history, just not RECENT world happenings.

[maniko]

that we're the most free people on the planet
:eyebrow:
I can make a very long list of reasons why europe and northern africa are way more free than america.



Im a belgian and im not patriotic at all, it's not like i don't like my country but i can't find a reason to like it.

[Sieda]

:eyebrow:
I can make a very long list of reasons why europe and northern africa are way more free than america.



Im a belgian and im not patriotic at all, it's not like i don't like my country but i can't find a reason to like it.

French fries, French toast, Belgian Waffles. I'm pretty sure those all originated in Belgium, and they're all damn delicious.

[maniko]

French fries, French toast, Belgian Waffles. I'm pretty sure those all originated in Belgium, and they're all damn delicious.
pretty sure they didn't (maybe the waffles did) we're just supposed to make the best.
And when i go to paris or moesel(Germany) the French fries taste the same.

[BlackHood]

Leffe beer by the river. I love Belgium.

[Fluzz]

I THINK we have an American History class that we can take as an option too.

They do, I'm taking it next year. Only because I wanted a University and a history course, but the other option, world history, is only a mixed course. Go figure.

Everything to be said about Canada's patriotism has been said, we're not all that great. We know and respect the power the states hold, and just how royally fucked up it can get in the wrong hands. Everyone I know, including myself, is quite pleased that Obama is in power. Then again I live in a pretty liberal suburb.

I think, speaking for Canada, we're quite content being a middle power. Stephen Harper is a fucking twat though.

[mr_moogle]

In Sweden we learn quite a bit of the past wars in Sweden and such, but only for a year or so. We learned about the settlers and the industrial revolution when we read about America, but most of the time we read about the Greek and Egyptians.

Some of us are fairly patriotic, but nothing serious. It's a decent country with good food and climate.

To add a little about Sweden: In the biggest tabloids we can read about everything that Obama does, now that I can understand since he actually is the most powerful man on earth right now so whatever. We do however gets alot of shit about whoever Jennifer Aniston is dating and whatnot. Plus some exclusive interviews with Malin Akerman, Stellan Skarsgaard and Peter Stormare who apperently are the biggest stars in Hollywood at the moment.
This combined with a little USA-hating thrown in to the mix.

If you say anything slightly patriotic you are (atleast where I live) considerd a racsist do to the amount of immigrants who live in the area. (Now I think it's pretty stupid to be snooty over where you were born "fuck yeah, born in Sweden high five" but whatever.)

[Ikin]

I agree with some of the others that posted US history textbooks are hugely biased. There's a huge emphasis on the revolution ("Fuck yeah, Washington beat those British fucks") and the world wars are barely discussed until the point at which the US entered. I was never really brought up to be patriotic, though. I mean, sure, I like the US, but being born here out of pure chance isn't something to be proud of in my opinion.

[John Travolta]

and the world wars are barely discussed until the point at which the US entered
That's because a United States History course is about United States History.

[Frobes]

I don't like how Obama is going about internal government. Taking over GMC, healthcare issues, bailouts, etc. just seem like the wrong way to go. Living in Michigan, the whole taking over of GMC hurts bug time. He gave banks bailouts easily but asked the car dealerships to go head over heels just to get a little money and a seemingly impossible ultimatum. I hate politics, but I'm not stupid.

[Tweek]

I think the thing is, banks are much more important than car manufacturers, even giants like GM.
Bailouts aren't the way to go, I'll agree with you there.
And what has he done for healthcare? I'm not up to date but I thought it was as shit as ever. Or is that the problem?

[JonC]

When I was in school, I think I learned more about the US History, but that actually depended on the class and year. I know there was a year of high school where I was taught about World History and whatnot. Of course, the US was tied in sometimes, but it wasn't primarily about us.

I don't mind learning about the US history, some of it is interesting, but I always enjoyed European history more. But sometimes it just depended on the teacher too.

[Ureshii]

New Zealand is vaguely patriotic except that it's more pride in our Maori culture than being an independent nation. We pretty much circlejerk over the Haka and anything vaguely Maori, ignoring anything anyone else achieves except in very rare circumstances. It frustrates me that from the age of 5 we are taught about the Treaty Of Waitangi (a pretty major treaty in New Zealand history) from a Maori point of view but we learn nothing else about New Zealand history for the rest of our schooling. In High School the history courses deal with Black Civil Rights in the US, Irish history and the buildup to WWII.

As far as I remember we never touched on the Treaty in school until social studies in Years 9 and 10. Even then they where only one small unit of fiveish. The teaching and the text books where resonably fair and neutral I thought. To be honest I wish I had payed more attention as Treaty issues are really important and need to be resovled.

As you said NZers are pretty toned down patriotically. ANZAC and Waitangi day are the days were show any sort of patriotism and they are nothing like the fanfare of Independance and Thanksgiving. We are very proud of our tourism destinations (Fiordland, Rotorua etc) and really we should be proud. Growing up in a place like Rotorua you see tourists everyday. During the summer every second person is foriegn. Comments like "oh NZ is so beautiful and the people are so welcoming" when all you see is rampant deforestation and quite a lot of inequality can be really insightful. You don't know what you have got till you have been somewhere else.
Plastic wrapped Maori culture also can be an issue for me. There is nothing like a $2 plastic tiki made in China.

In my opinion NZ has a quiet smugness towards American patriotism. Everyone has a bit of a chuckle about it with even the media taking the occassional snipe. In the 80's Nz banned American warships entry in our waters and the relationship has only recently really been recovered. There has really been a small, underlying contempt towards American culture stemming in due part from their blind patriotism.

[hollywood_maggot]

I'm not disagreeing that Australia relies on multiculturalism, in fact I am agreeing that it is an integral part, of both our economy and our culture. I believe my original thoughts have been over exaggerated. It is my opinion that an element of patriotism is necessary in society, not saying Australia is a shining example either. It creates a sense of uniformity, and no matter what you do anywhere, you are bound to piss one or more people off, even if it wasn't you're intention originally. You can either agree or disagree that an element, no matter how small, of patriotism is an integral part of any countries society. Obviously you don't, but I understand where you're coming from.

The main problem is that the patriotism most obviously displayed (thanks in large to the media) is the racist, bogan shit. I mean, I'm damn proud to be Australian, I love that we're multi-cultured, that we're laid back but at the same time extremely hard working and can laugh just about anything off. And I think that's what alot of Australians are proud of, and it does what you say. The racist, bogan shit is relatively rare (well, depends where you are) and the problem probably lies in places where there are large numbers of only one culture. Where I live, Blacktown, I got a shock the other day when I looked around the station and had trouble putting two people together as coming from the same background, and when you walk around the shops and listen to conversations almost every one is a different language.

[Magnifisense]

So, to my point: is it like this everywhere? For those of you who aren't in the US, how far does the patriotism culture go? Is your country's leader supposed to be the second coming of Christ like ours is? Alternatively, is everything actually about the United States and are we the best country on Earth? If so, I apologize to any news reporters who may have been offended by this.

Also consider mentioning why you hate the news, regardless of country.

Hmm... Canada isn't quite like this, although I do remember one day on the Fourth of July I heard someone saying "I'm shocked that no one has wished a happy independence day to our brothers to the south, so happy independence day"

Now see, the thing you should consider is that the USA is a great country filled with quite a few terribly stupid people.

See, the problem is, most of you either hate your country for the people in it, or love your country blindly. It's foolish to love the country you're born in, because you can't choose which one you're born in, but it's okay to embrace the good qualities of your nation.

So learn your history, be happy you live in a country more privileged then most, but don't blindly love that flag. In the end, patriotism is solely the belief that your country is better than any other country in the world because it's your country.

Also, I can sum up everything I hate about the News in just one word: Fox.

[TheTacticalBadger]

As far as I remember we never touched on the Treaty in school until social studies in Years 9 and 10. Even then they where only one small unit of fiveish. The teaching and the text books where resonably fair and neutral I thought. To be honest I wish I had payed more attention as Treaty issues are really important and need to be resovled.

As you said NZers are pretty toned down patriotically. ANZAC and Waitangi day are the days were show any sort of patriotism and they are nothing like the fanfare of Independance and Thanksgiving. We are very proud of our tourism destinations (Fiordland, Rotorua etc) and really we should be proud. Growing up in a place like Rotorua you see tourists everyday. During the summer every second person is foriegn. Comments like "oh NZ is so beautiful and the people are so welcoming" when all you see is rampant deforestation and quite a lot of inequality can be really insightful. You don't know what you have got till you have been somewhere else.
Plastic wrapped Maori culture also can be an issue for me. There is nothing like a $2 plastic tiki made in China.

In my opinion NZ has a quiet smugness towards American patriotism. Everyone has a bit of a chuckle about it with even the media taking the occassional snipe. In the 80's Nz banned American warships entry in our waters and the relationship has only recently really been recovered. There has really been a small, underlying contempt towards American culture stemming in due part from their blind patriotism.

Maybe it was going to a very Maori-orientated school but we were taught it from year 5. We were given a VERY bias view of the treaty and it really effected the way I see the whole ordeal. There are definitely a lot of issues that need resolving but I have trouble viewing anything surrounding the treaty neutrally. But again, probably due to the school. The plastic wrapped Maori culture thing is a valid point. It's not the only interesting thing in our country and, special as it is, it shouldn't be packaged up and sold back to us, especially not in the cheap manner that it is. Also, do you not feel like the whole culture is sort of rammed down our throats constantly? I mean, there are many other cultures in New Zealand and all of them are equally as important. New Zealand is definitely very beautiful, I got a real shock coming back from Bangkok to the quiet peace and stunning views of our country. In my opinion, America is slandered big time both by the public and the media. However having never been there, I can't honestly say whether it is accurate or not

[opn4bzns]

Australians stop learning about white Australians in year 4, but for the next 6 years it's compulsory to have 1 term of Aboriginal sob stories for half the subjects and at least 5 showings of "The Rabbit Proof Fence" shoved down your throat a year, and then have the option of having more if you chose Modern History, Society and Culture (Which is actually pretty good other than it and the Amish stuff) or Aboriginal Studies as a subject.
Abo's have the most boring culture ever.

Given that we stole their country and destroyed their culture do you really think we're the victims in this situation?

[TheTacticalBadger]

Given that we stole their country and destroyed their culture do you really think we're the victims in this situation?

Weren't aborigines also hunted as sport?

[hollywood_maggot]

Yup. We stole their country, killed them for fun, almost committed genocide in Tasmania, destroyed their culture, attempted to breed them into being white...

Well, I say we, but that's bullshit. We didn't. Our ancestors did (well, mine didn't). So it was kinda ridiculous how little kindy kids were made to say sorry on Sorry Day. As good as the gesture was, there are things about it that I disagree with.

But, Aborigines are still majorly fucked, but it's hard to tell what the right thing to do is. Does the government continue to stick their hand in their affairs? Do they leave them alone and be seen as people who fuck things up and then piss off? It's a difficult choice to make, but this is off topic so I'll stop now.

[TheTacticalBadger]

Yea you can't feel guilty for that sort of thing. Even if your ancestors did pull some pretty sick shit, it's hardly your own fault. There is a lot of over-compensating for past wrongs all over the world. I don't really agree with it.

[Magnifisense]

But, Aborigines are still majorly fucked, but it's hard to tell what the right thing to do is. Does the government continue to stick their hand in their affairs? Do they leave them alone and be seen as people who fuck things up and then piss off? It's a difficult choice to make, but this is off topic so I'll stop now.

I hear you man. In Canada the aboriginals that live on the reserves don't really give a shit about nature anymore. They found one crack dealers trailer. They burned it. Tires and everything. Real great for the air eh? We have one reserve that has a waterpark and one with go karts. (Ironically right next to the waterpark is a construction site where I swear you can smell fucking chemicals or something).

Really though, it's fucked up. We give them free university and I think they have some tax exemptions because of what our ancestors did.

The ones that are off the reserves are perfectly normal though. It's such a shame their culture went to waste too, because it's a cool culture.

(Speaking of "Sorry Day" we gave a rebate or something to all the Chinese people in Canada for the head tax we made them pay, which is really fucked up because some of them would have moved here after the fact... $120 per person I think it was)

[Ureshii]

Maybe it was going to a very Maori-orientated school but we were taught it from year 5. We were given a VERY bias view of the treaty and it really effected the way I see the whole ordeal. There are definitely a lot of issues that need resolving but I have trouble viewing anything surrounding the treaty neutrally. But again, probably due to the school. The plastic wrapped Maori culture thing is a valid point. It's not the only interesting thing in our country and, special as it is, it shouldn't be packaged up and sold back to us, especially not in the cheap manner that it is. Also, do you not feel like the whole culture is sort of rammed down our throats constantly? I mean, there are many other cultures in New Zealand and all of them are equally as important. New Zealand is definitely very beautiful, I got a real shock coming back from Bangkok to the quiet peace and stunning views of our country. In my opinion, America is slandered big time both by the public and the media. However having never been there, I can't honestly say whether it is accurate or not

To a degree I do beleive Maori culture is forced upon the rest of the population. However, I don't think this is an all togeather bad thing. All my classmates hated Kapa Haka in primary and intermediate but secretly sort of was interested and enjoyed it. I wish I had paid more attention and was more enthusiastic.
I honestly belive that all New Zealanders should have at least some knowledge of Maori Tikanga and Te Reo. It's part of what makes you a New Zealander. The Maori culture and language is special and unique and should be preserved by becoming a greater part of New Zealand culture in general. I know that some non-Maori would hate to learn these sorts of things but tough luck your a New Zealander its part of your identity. I'm pretty sure early contact Maori hated learning English and British customs.

In regard to Magnifisense you have to realise that the original goal of the Indian reserves was to set aside a small corner to allow the Indians to slowly wither away in the white-mans filth. I think they did a pretty good job, wouldn't you agree?

[opn4bzns]

Yup. We stole their country, killed them for fun, almost committed genocide in Tasmania, destroyed their culture, attempted to breed them into being white...

Well, I say we, but that's bullshit. We didn't. Our ancestors did (well, mine didn't). So it was kinda ridiculous how little kindy kids were made to say sorry on Sorry Day. As good as the gesture was, there are things about it that I disagree with.


I'm not saying we are responsible for what our ancestors did, that would be like blaming german kids for the holocaust. My point is that it's a bit rich for white kids to be bitching about the injustice of having to learn about Aboriginal culture when the reason they're basically fucked is because of what white people did.

e:

Really though, it's fucked up. We give them free university and I think they have some tax exemptions because of what our ancestors did.

Well, I didn't oppress anyone, so clearly we should ignore their social disadvantage.

[Putzmeister]

Hey, over a million of you lot came here last year just for holidays :lol:

I said if anything, New Zealand would be the place I move to. I'm New Zealand on my mothers side, and have relatives over near Queenstown that I visit every year, when I can. I go boarding almost every year at the Remarkables. And I know its a densely tourist oriented area, and people frown on it for that, but I love it there. The landscape is better than Australia tenfold.

I used to go to place called Arrowtown when I was young, in my opinion it is the greatest town I have ever been to. I used to be able to walk on the road down the main street and not have a care in the world. Now I can't walk down the sidewalk without having to stop, and get crushed by the masses of American tourists. It's changed a lot in just a few short years. In short, New Zealand is fantastic.

[Laurence]

Really though, it's fucked up. We give them free university and I think they have some tax exemptions because of what our ancestors did.

That, generally speaking, is because what your ancestors did put their ancestors in a socio-economic position where they would be deprived of the opportunity to get a university education. Equal opportunity is so fucked up.

[Haggis McSpud]

Our teachers hated teaching us any American history whatsoever in school, but since it was always on the syllabus, we learnt about things like the Vietnam war and Pearl Harbor with a underlying hint that America was always to blame. Probably payback for all you wankers claiming to be 1/4 Irish on your granny's side etc.

[BlackHood]

People need to be taught that America was to blame, even if its just to counter balance the sheer number of people who think America single-handedly won WWII and the Battle of Britain.

[jewishjosh]

(Speaking of "Sorry Day" we gave a rebate or something to all the Chinese people in Canada for the head tax we made them pay, which is really fucked up because some of them would have moved here after the fact... $120 per person I think it was)
I think you've got your facts wrong. We didn't give handouts to every Chinese-Canadian, I'm pretty sure it was only descendants of the ones who were forced to pay the head tax, or the original immigrants who paid it themselves.

[WoeStorm]

Shut up guys America is the best :mad:

[BlackHood]

The best at sucking maybe!

[Ikin]

That's because a United States History course is about United States History.

:/ Yeah, not what I meant to say.

[hollywood_maggot]

Our teachers hated teaching us any American history whatsoever in school, but since it was always on the syllabus, we learnt about things like the Vietnam war and Pearl Harbor with a underlying hint that America was always to blame. Probably payback for all you wankers claiming to be 1/4 Irish on your granny's side etc.

I dunno much about Pearl Harbour, but there shouldn't be any underlying hint about Vietnam - it's quite blatently obvious that it was America's fault. Australia shouldn't have supported them the way they did, but it was America's fault and just in case anyone here thinks otherwise, they did lose. But yeah, I agree with Blackhood, it's a nice counter-balance to the pervaying thought that WWII was basically fought and won entirely by Americans. Good ol' hollywood.

Magnifisense, it's already been pointed out, but they are in a far far worse socio-economic situation. The same is for the Australian Aboriginals, there still has to be support, even if there's no meddling.

[Tweek]

How was a foreign war America's fault? They got involved, but they didn't start it.

[hollywood_maggot]

They made it spiral into the shit it ended up being. They weren't even invited in. The war would have been far far less catastrophic if America hadn't decided it was it's responsibility to be paranoid and attack communism before it spread, which is doubtful.

[Putzmeister]

How was a foreign war America's fault? They got involved, but they didn't start it.

You're kidding right? Like really kidding? What about Iraq? Iraq seems eerily reminiscent of Vietnam, in which both wars, were initiated by America. And supported majorly by Australia.

[Tweek]

I was referring to Vietnam, which was not initiated by America.
Lern2history.

[Putzmeister]

I was referring to Vietnam, which was not initiated by America.
Lern2history.

In fact, the global conflict involving multiple nations was initiated by America, resulting in the deaths of many nations soldiers, all because of America's rash decisions and irrational fear of the 'Domino Theory'. Yet they continue to state that 'Oh well shit happens'.

[Tweek]

I don't really get what you're trying to prove. I said the Vietnam War was not started by America. It's historic fact, so uhh thats the end of it.

[Putzmeister]

My point is, that the Vietnam War. The war itself, was started by the US. The civil conflict between the north and the south wasn't technically a war, neither was the occupation of Vietnam by France. But when the US dragged not only itself, but other countries into a pointless conflict, a War, the Vietnam War, was started.

[Tweek]

Blaming the war on America when it clearly was borne from a conflict between the North and South just makes you a faggot.

Using that logic you can blame the Second World War on Britain and France since they got involved in Germany's invasions. It's just dumb and like I said, I don't get what you're trying to win.

[Adamski]

Actually World War 2 was Poland's fault, for lieing there all provocative and easy. Like a ten year old in a tank top and miniskirt, Poland was fucking asking for it.

[Sieda]

Well, the situation leading up to the Vietnam war before the Geneva Accords could be considered the fault of the French, the British, and the Chinese. (Although the US was providing a majority of the French military funding in the region.)

But honestly, the war itself is pretty much entirely the fault of the United States and the South Vietnamese. Basically, it was a similar situation to Korea. We agreed to partition the country into a North and South, and then let the people democratically decide the government pending a national election.

But we (and the leaders in the South) changed our minds when we figured out that a democratic vote would lead to communism, (Ho Chi Minh had already won elections in the North and Central parts of Vietnam years earlier, which the British and French ignored.) and decided to cancel the elections, leaving North and South separate.

Obviously the Vietnamese didn't like that idea, and a war was fought to unify the country. The difference between Korea being that the North eventually won and Vietnam became commies.


So yeah, it basically is the US's fault for not being able to stay the fuck out of someone elses business.

[hollywood_maggot]

Remember that the South didn't actually want to invite the US in.

[Blxorz]

The US is the greatest country on Earth.

I beg to differ.

[Quadros]

I don't really get what you're trying to prove. I said the Vietnam War was not started by America. It's historic fact, so uhh thats the end of it.

The wider war wasn't but the specific conflict involving US troops was started by the USA. As in, the VC didn't attack America, or even provoke them. And South Vietnam and the USA didn't have any obligations of mutual military assistance in existence before the North attacked. The war itself may not have been started by the USA (the overlapping conflicts in fact date back to WWII) but the escalation into a notable, globally important conflict and the inclusion of US troops in that conflict, and the escalation in damage and death caused by the conflict were all caused by the USA.

[Tweek]

If we go back, Haggis said that her teachers always hinted that America was to blame.
Hollywood said that the Vietnam War was definitely America's fault.
I said it wasn't because the war would have happened anyway. I never argued that America didn't get involved or cause the most destruction or atrocities, because that would make me a retard.
So, yeah.

[hollywood_maggot]

It probably wouldn't have ended up a full blown war really is the point. The Vietnam War as we know it, wouldn't have happened if not for the US. There probably would have been conflict, and maybe a war, but it would have been small and quite contained.

[Putzmeister]

Why was my point so hard to understand up until now?

[Tweek]

You guys :ugh:

[Putzmeister]

I'm sorry Tweek. But just because you hold a differing opinion, that does not mean that we are absolutely wrong, and your word is absolute truth.